OT: Value of an industrial electrician apprenticeship

I can't tell you what to do, but I can see you're young and impatient. Try to improve your impatience.

I worked in manufacturing engineering and supervision. I can tell you everyone knows that a good systems electrician type is worth his weight in gold. There are supervision and management types in your organization watching for talent. Let them see an up and comer that tries to get along and looks to improve things.

I hear you say that you push and they push back. So, then its time to find a way around. Always spend time in your job improving yourself.

Karl

Yes, it's frustrating when your sense of urgency and challenge exceeds that of your peers. Here's the deal: It's just a JOB. You need to appreciate the big picture: UNLESS what you propose will either save the company significant expense OR make them more profitable (faster, better, fewer errors, etc.) your enthusiasm is a YOU thing not shared by your associates. Look at the job market for your position. No one is going to pay $1 million per year for what you do. It pays what it's worth to the company, sometimes less. You can be the BEST apprentice possible and you should do that. However, you are in an entry-level position. You are not yet in the Master Electrical and Instrumentation position. Your boredom is not their problem. Here's the trick:

1. Try to do YOUR job the best that you can as well as helping your associates ON THEIR TERMS, not yours.
2. Become a team player, not a solo expert.

Good luck.

Relative to the two posts above by Karl and Tom. Boy, I'm sure impressed by the willingness to help and assist the OP. What a wonderful world we are living in!

Ivan Vegvary

Then I hope my response doesn't change your mind about that.

It sounds to me like Nate is a high-horsepower engine on a career path designed for pump motors. He's articulate in a way that an editor will appreciate: he's not free of minor writing errors but his organization of thoughts is in the top few percent of the population, especially for young people.

Which suggests that he has intellectual capabilities that aren't going to be satisfied by a technician career path, management opportunities or not. He'll chew up the technical side of any such job long before they're ready to move him. And when they move him, he'll probably be dissatisfied again in a hurry. It may be just a quirk of personality but it sounds to me like he's coupled to the wrong load.

If mechanical or other technical things are his passion then maybe it's time to consider engineering or science. Whatever it is, he'd better love it, because a career is a long time. And it sounds like he may want something where he can be self-directed, at the high end, if he's going to work for someone else.

If it's motive ambition rather than purely intellectual curiosity and challenge, he may want to start setting himself up to be self-employed. Lord knows, that can burn up any amount of energy and ambition. d8-)

-- Ed Huntress

============== Career advice is now like advice on how to "time the [stock] market," i.e. of limited value, however I have several observations that may be of use.

Learn as much as you can on your job, but get your electrician's license, both residential and industrial, and accumulate the tools you will need to be an independent contractor. If you can "moonlight" on the side you won't have to worry about overtime at the shop to make ends meet.

Have contingency plans in place to become a independent contractor at a moments notice, such as having the required paperwork completed and ready to submit for a business license, lines of credit established at the bank, a suitable [used/low cost] van or panel truck picked out, etc. These contengency plans/preperations need not be discussed with/disclosed to your co-workers or supervision.

Good luck and welcome to the "brave new world order" and "global economy."

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I'm a little less optimistic than Tom or Karl. An apprenticeship program tends to mean a union shop with a rigid structure. You will be locked into what you are allowed to learn for a long period of time. Some of the equipment may be very complex but mostly it is just bigger. And a lot of the complexity is due to a hodge podge of poorly planned additions and upgrades. But the things the job has are stability, long term employment, and good wages.

From my point of view, I just LOVE to have a tech that I can sketch out my ideas and have them magically appear a few days later as finished prototypes. Things like sketching out the first circuit, the other 7 are done the same way, hooked up correctly, tie wrapped for neatness, color coded wires, tested, etc is just nice. Or machined parts that fit correctly even if I didn't remind the model shop guy about the extra (fill in the blank) that needs to go on it. I've had techs that fall in the wonderful category, and I've had to deal with techs that seem to go out of their way to make sure projects don't work for the first 5 tries.

So the OP is one who can get things done, likes to learn, is multi disciplined, and can trouble shoot. Those are not the talents that an apprenticeship program is set up to encourage. Seems to me he should be in a development shop or a production shop that undergoes regular upgrades. We don't have a specific job or a resume from Nathan to match against the the openings but it sure seems like he could find something better suited to his skills and attitude.

My thoughts. Suspect others might disagree.

Nathan Weber wrote:

Uka George, you speak great truth there. I figured that one out a bit too late.

Oh the things I would have done differently now with my rear view mirror perspective.

Wes

Sounds like your first job had more growth potential. I fully understand how you feel about working with those that have no desire or ability to grow.

Does your current job have a state license at the end of training? That might be worthwhile as far as future earnings.

You want to be an engineer. Determine how you can achieve that. See what community college has to offer, extension courses, ect.

You sound like the type of guy I'd like to work with.

Wes

Watch out for the politics of the situation. Your "pushing" may not be appreciated by your seniors. If it makes them look bad, they have ways of taking care of you. If this is, as it sounds, a union job, this suggestion may not work, but: See what additional education your company will support. Even if they dont' offer anything, you might decide to go to night school to get a degree as befits your desires. That sure will take the boredom out life for a while. Then,if you are waiting at the bottom of the ladder while the light bulb is changed, you can always do some homework.

Don't blow it in the interpersonal communications area, unless you've got a south Pacific Island someplace to live. Actually, now that I've said that, DO study interpersonal relationships. Understanding how and why the other guy thinks and does is key to success in any position.

Pete Stanaitis

--------------

Nathan Weber wrote:

============ As did I. Retirement offers time to reflect, but unless passed on to the next generation, the lessons and insights gained are wasted...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

snip

It sounds like two choices: either start learning about what it takes to start your own business or start thinking about going to college for engineering. I was in a situation that sounds a lot like yours and I picked college. It may or may not have been the best choice. A number of friends took the small business path - some have done very well, some less so. The challenges and the rewards are different, but both paths offer some of each.

I am getting to be an old guy and I am still trying to figure out what I want to do. Work is never going to be continuous fun - if it was, they would be charging you to do it. It should not be a continuous grind either though.

Good Luck, Bob

I'm at that age where I realize I never would have listened/believed you as my younger self.

So spew all you want to the younger set, they won't be paying attention. The head nodding you interpret as agreement will be to the tune blazing away on their iPod.