OT w/metal content: Kennedy 1963

Some degree of marksmenship...a little rifle training and practice....

Ok.

We really need to go to the range someday. Perhaps you can teach me a few things.

Oh..bring money. For a friendly wager or two...

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

I was able to watch the (forget the station in Ft. Worth) PBS station here that we allowed use of a section of our tape.

What I saw at the first was two college types re-writing history. The rest seemed to be ok -

Some of the stuff is new there is more every now and then.

We don't know all of the facts yet - and this is also true when speaking of Lincoln.

Some don't talk, some lie, some fib, some don't identify them selves.

Over the years, we get some death bed statements and the like. The sixth floor put out a small booklet themselves that has a nice map and identifies and has pages on each person identified.

< explains some of the history issues a note about me :-)

Martin[ ex El Paso, ex Commerce, ex Arlington, ex College Station, ex Austin, never ex Texas :-) ]

Gunner sez: " We really need to go to the range someday. Perhaps you can teach me a few things."

I wouldn't deign to teach you anything, Gunner. But it would be a privilege and an pleasure to go the range with you, Sir. In all probability, I would be the one on the receiving end of the teachins. Lately, I have been trying to perfect my bench rest technique to throw 1/4 inch groups from my Kimber .22 rimfire. I have an old Hoppe's fore-end rest, with a nice leather shot-bag and reinforced legs that I added. I thought it was rigid enough - until I compared it to a Hart rest (Wichita type).

Bob Swinney

"

Ok, well we have a slightly different view on it then...

_-_-bear

Bob Sw> Yep! Been there. Also have seen the little room where Oswald took his

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Exactly, what I said is that the *best* location, for the *easiest* shot was from another location. The 6th floor of the Book Depository is a *difficult* shot - one that I sure as heck would not want to take, *UNLESS* I had no other choices.

In addition I am not certain that the vectors for the wounds match well to the angle that the *alleged* location would permit. Whereas, the location I suggest is *perfect* in that regard, as far as I can tell.

You are aware of the building on the end of the street? Did you bother to look at it?

_-_-bear

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So Bob,

would you like to put a group 6" diameter or less at a distance of about

150 - 200 feet at a target that is moving to your right at a speed of about 5-7 mph, hand held OR would you rather hit the same group of 6" or less at a distance of 250-300 feet with a target that is ONLY moving slightly in elevation, not rotation?

And at what distance are you doing 1/4" groups?? You ought to be able to do " 1/4" groups " with a .22 at 50 ft hand held standing if you are any good... kneeling, sitting or prone is something any half decent shooter can do. In fact you need to do just this to get your NRA Sharpshooter rating, not to mention all the bars up to "Expert." Iirc... pretty much that's hitting the 9 and bullseye all the time, right?

I stopped going to summer camp at 14 or 15, but I had gotten my Sharpshooter 9th bar by that time... whoopie!

:- )

_-_-bear

Bob Sw> Gunner sez:

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Actually, one in a hundred is NOT what happened - 3 out of 3 did.

Therein is the problem!

I'd rather have take the shot from another location... much higher probability of hitting the moving target when it only moves in elevation slightly, if at all (depending upon which floor of the building I suggested you aim from).

_-_-bear

-- _-_- BEAR Labs - Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -

The Kimber is sure a sweet little rifle. I use an Anschutz 1407 for bag work, though it was my Small Bore competition rifle for many years. Ive build several rests over the years, chuckle and keep coming back to a couple basic red bricks with cut off jeans legs filled with playground sand for bags. I think I have 3-4 storebought rests around here that seldom get used except for when a friend forgets to bring one

What ammo does your Kimber prefer? The Anshutz oddly enough loves Eley Tennex, and Ace Hardware Winchester Wildcats...LOL.

I used to get quite a few stares from the other old farts when we started off a Small Bore match..and they were shooting subsonics...phut, phut, POP, phut, POP, phut, .....with that $.98 a box stuff and they were shooting that $5 a box stuff.

The old Mossberg 144 LS still likes Green Tag and RWS Rifle Match, but shoots Stingers of all things, rather well.

22 target rifles are more notional than neurotic women when it comes to ammo.

If you have not already done so, pick up a box of every thing you can find, and shoot two strings of 5 of each. You will be utterly surprised at how well or poorly each will shoot out of your individual rifle, and shoot completly differently from anothers rifle, even if the same brand and model.

Oh..swab the bore between brands.

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

from up there.

Ive always been fascinated by the .30 bullet that was found laying on Kennedy's gurney. Fresh, pristine, not a rifling or impact mark anywhere on it.

Its doubly fascinating when one considers the Carcano alleged to have been used was a 6.5 mm......

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

I am trying to shoot 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards from a standard bench rest. As with most .22 rimfires, the Kimber is quite ammo finicky. My Kimber came with a laminated 5 shot proof group of 0.37 inch. Of course I set out to prove I could do better. But getting 1/4 inchers consistently is not easy and that is the area in which ammo sensitivity shows up. Kimber's proof group was shot with Remington Eley Match Extra. Kimber also recommends Federal Match. I have used both, and several others, but Remington Eley is best, so far - maybe because it was weaned on it. I can tell that a more powerful scope is in order, or at least I think it is. I have a Leupold 3 -

9x EFR on it now and never use anything other than the 9x setting for targets. If I get another scope for it, the 3-9 might get transferred to an air rifle.

Thats an easy two part diagnosis.

First of all, you dont have enough magnification. You should be using something in the 18 to 32x range for .22s

Secondly..while the Extended Focus scopes will allow close focusing..they are not parallax adjustable..and Ill bet dollars to donuts thats whats kicking your ass, particularly if you are not aware of the factor.

A third problem..while Leupold is a great scope..even they have a hard time making a scope that is clear and parallax free at the top end of the magnification range at such close range.

From another website:

"PARALLAX ADJUSTMENT

This has proved to be a very important factor when competing in a Field Target Competition. This feature is actually the most important feature on the scope ! Most fixed parallax scopes are Parallax set to

100m and beyond, which is a very big problem since you will be shooting at distances between 7m and 50m. Go to a Gun Shop and try out one of the fixed parallax scopes, put the scope on a table and look at something about 7 - 10 meters away from you. Once you can see a clear picture start moving your head behind the scope and see what happens. You should notice that the crosshair appears to be moving around as well and doesn't stay on target! What this means is that if your head is not in exactly the same position when you shoot at about 10m using one of these fixed parallax scopes you will NOT GET A TRUE POINT OF AIM and will probably miss your target!

Parallax adjustable scopes are also used for range finding purposes which is EXTREMELY important in a FT Competition. You are not allowed to use a electronic rangefinder in FT, and also don't know the distance to your target. This means that you have to judge the distance, and at distances like 40m you need to be pretty accurate in distance judging otherwise you will miss the target. On a Parallax Adjustable scope you can mark different distances and there with range find using the scope.

Consider a scope with Side Parallax Adjustment if you can afford it, it's much easier, but also much more expensive !"

For such shooting, I far and away prefer a fixed power scope of around

20-32x. When I was competing in Small Bore, I used (still have it on the Aschutz) a Lyman Super Spot of 20x. This is probably the ultimate: You might find something on this page to tickle your fancy, though it might burn a large hole in your wallet LOL Though to be fair..they are the same price or cheaper than a modern benchrest scope.

Nearly all of my "social" rifles sport a fixed power scope, but this sort of usage is a bit different than that of fixed range bench resting and use less magnification as the targets are much bigger.

I think I stuck a Burris 8x32 40mm scope on my Dads target 22, and it seems to work pretty well for him.

Keep the most consistant stock weld and eye relief you can and you can, with practice at fixed ranges, overcome the parallax issue. Maybe. Usually. Often.

Ymmv

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

Now I'm confused. The Leupold 3 - 9 ERF scope has an adjustable objective from 30 feet to infinity. I keep mine set at 50 yards, of course. I was lead to believe from the Leupold literature and some folks at various gun stores that this was, in fact, "the" parallax adjustment. If it is not, I'm screwed and if it is I can see how even a tiny bit of error could lead to inconsistency in group sizes. I have wondered about this for some time. I am a pretty fair shot and know how to call my shots but some of the "flyers" frequently contradict my call, opening up the group to 1/2 inch or more. This could well be a parallax thing. If so, I have been lied to by Leupold and their sales reps.

Bob Swinney

It is, but until you calibrate it for *your eyes*, it is wrong. The factory markings on the objective will rarely be close to correct since *your eyes* are part of the entire system being compensated, and *your eyes* aren't the same as the eyes of someone else.

Go here and read the procedure to properly adjust and calibrate your scope, then come back with any questions you may have.

Gary

It could indeed be a parallax adjustment, or simply a focus adjustment. As the little cut and paste part showed...look though the scope and simply move your head right and left. If the cross hairs wander...

I bought a decent Weaver varmint scope once with the adjustment ring on the objective, thinking it was the parallax adjustable sort. Dinging ground squirrels (bout the size of a skinny beer can) at 800 meters requires a pretty decent scope..and sure as shit it was simply a focus adjustment. I traded it off the next gun show for one that was adjustable.

Respects

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

Many thanks, Gary! I printed out the excellent link (

you supplied. Of particular relevance is that the link specifies adjustment procedures for high quality air rifle scopes. One of the reasons I chose the Leupold 3-9 EFR for 50 yard rim-fire work was because of its adjustable parallax at close ranges. The scope was set up and adjusted according to Leupold's instructions. Now that I have detailed instructions (and explanations) it seems highly likely that a slight error in parallax could have the effect of blowing my anticipated 1/4 inch groups. Evidently, a tiny parallax adjustment (using the factory objective setting) could result in an equally tiny group spread. Substantiating this is the fact that I tried various "holds" and found that an almost free hold with very limited eye relief (putting me far back from the eye piece) was key to the best groups. It is plausible that self-imposed eye relief could force a view path down the optical center and thus tighten but not eliminate the effects of parallax.

I will most certainly set up the Leupold 3-9 according to the detailed instructions. Thanking you again, most sincerely,

Bob Swinney