OT Walmart and you

================ Don't watch many Master Card / Visa ads do you?

Large part of our current socio-economic problems appears to be that these encourage a subliminal belief in a modern day version of the "cargo cult." [google for more info]

Uncle George

============= In my not so humble opinion, you have just identified *THE* major problem, and substantive difference, in our current economic crisis. [e.g. median annual inflation adjusted income falls three years in a row while sales and property taxes continue to increase ....]

By and large, the people making meaningful [in the sense of impacting the aggregated US economy] business decisions are *NO LONGER* "owners," but "professional" managers hired by the [stockholders] owners' representatives [directors] to run the business for them.

==> A major lapse by the stockholders was to ignore the dictum "never hire someone you can't fire." The result is situation where the stockholders "eat" the losses while the officers/executives/directors get the lions' share of any [or all] gains.

Right, but imagine doing that *every* day. During the winter. Hint: winter is when the snow falls and then they have those special things that plow up the pavement but leave the snow behind...

Sounds like a plan. If you're paying at the pump you might at least get something for it!

Jim

Wow! That's a tough one. Lots of lost time. That would work much better for folks that are retired and don't have to commute, or perhaps for those that can make the commute a part of their actual sleeping time. I sympathize. I recall all too well having to commute over an hour one way to my job in the early years. It was one of the reasons why I finally started working for myself.

Harold

I've been thinking back to the early 70's, when we went through what was, as I recall, the first oil crisis. Cost of everything went up pretty much in keeping with the price of oil.

That thought should stop everyone's blood cold. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

Harold

I agree, You can "get away". We did it, and living is better and cheaper. One of the things you have to do to be successful is leave the big city behind you-----don't try to take it with you. Learn to live with the land, and accept the slower pace of life. It's far less convenient to live out in the country, but the rewards make it well worth while. I watch deer browse in the yard, enjoy the squirrels and chipmunks, feed the birds, and best of all, don't have to listen to or smell cars driving by constantly. The silence is often deafening. (If you can ignore the occasional rifle shot, or the seemingly endless sound of a chain saw running).

Harold

True. My situation is far and away different from that of a person raising a family.

The latter typically have more expenses,

Well said. However, teaching one's offspring to live within reasonable boundaries is very much a part of raising children, and should be taught by example instead of word of mouth. I'm not convinced people need a cell phone for every child, nor do they "need" cable TV. There are some luxuries that clearly are that---luxuries.

I was raised "poor" by most folk's measure, but I didn't know we were poor. We had the necessities----but not the unneeded luxuries.. Even when my father was laid up with bursitis for several months, we didn't miss a meal.

It's arguable that I'm normal, but I feel I wasn't adversely affected by being raised as I was, and I'll always have respect for my father, one of the most honest people I've ever known. He worked for what he got, and, like Jim does with his wife, kept my mother at home.

Harold

I lived in Connecticut before and during the time that Xerox moved to Greenwich. Before the Xerox move I was always 2,000$ short of a down payment on a house no matter how much I saved, after the move I was always 5,000$ short of a down payment. Transferred back to a Kansas subsidiary of the Connecticut corporation with the same salary. Biggest raise I ever got (even with Kansas income tax, no income tax in Connecticut at that time), and was able to make a 35% down payment on a house.

Uncle George

Chuckle!

Nope, and I don't use their damned cards, either.

Harold

Or for that matter, commercial TV at all. It's a real time-waster.

Ah, I don't 'keep' there there, it was her choice actually.

I helped to put her through law school and she worked in NYC for slightly over a year before she quit that job and opened her own practice locally. It was a mistake for her to try to continue working right after our kid was born, but she did it and that was a tough one.

Eventually she decided that she was tired of accounts receiveable and to use her terms, would rather not work and not get paid, than work and not get paid. So she's been 'retired' since then.

The atmosphere improvement in the home was tremendous at that point I would say.

Jim

This is where I think you're overlooking my point of view. You speak of owners and managers in the same context. In the vast majority of situations, they are not the same people. Long ago, owners used to work & manage at their companies. These owners generally knew their workforce personally & appreciated the good workers while dealing prudently with bad workers - I've worked for a couple & wish I could find one again. Many have either no children to carry on the business or family members who aren't interested in the business when they retire so the company is sold. Only very small companies seem to still work this way - limited job opportunities for today's large work force. Today, most companies are run by professional managers. Most managers are promised incentives which are tied directly to the bottom line dollar increases they can prove they've made. It is now argued that it doesn't matter how these increases were obtained - someone higher up (owner) has agreed to this rationale. This is where the average employee is sold out and is made to realize he does not have a career with a company - he has a JOB with a company. Employees become nothing more than a simple tool to be eliminated/replaced when a numbers counter sees fit. Since I have no chance at profit sharing or even keeping my job where is my incentive to do anything more than what I'm being paid for? These managers still expect employees to creatively improve the company's *profitability* with no reward (keeping your job at best - not even talking about $) while watching their leaders RAPE the system. Addressing *profitability* deals with TODAY - *competitiveness* deals with TOMORROW. I say both can be addressed but it has to BEGIN at the management level.

What's that they say about real estate? Location---location---location. Great example you've cited here.

Harold

Well, except for the Steelers fans, we have to cheer for Gus's Seahawks.

I'll be reading a book, until baseball season starts. d8-) (that's a Yankees hat)

-- Ed Huntress

Ha! Try to argue with that!

If it wasn't for the news, and reruns of Raymond, for laughs, commercial TV has almost nothing to offer me. Right now, about the only thing being talked about is the Seahawks and the upcoming Super Bowl. I'm happy for those that like football, but it's hardly the most pressing news of the day.

Cool! I should have made room for that concept, too. My mind was on my ex- B-I-L, who demanded his (now ex)wife work in spite of the fact that he was running his own fabrication business and knocking down serious money.

Yep.. You can miss out on some special moments------moments that come but once in the child's life. Still, you have to admire her willingness to contribute, and her dedication to your successful marriage.

I told Susan she need not work when we got married. Took her two weeks to realize she couldn't do both jobs, run the house for us, and work. I was busy working countless hours in the shop, making a comfortable living. It was nice having her at home for hot meals-------and fresh made pies. With the shop at home, we enjoyed one another's company, to say nothing of the great home cooked meals.

I can well imagine! Should she ever decide to get back in the work force, you'll miss having her around. It's a full time job taking care of a house, even when there are no children. Something has to slip--------or maybe you can take care of it instead of take that ride on your bike you've been waiting to enjoy!

Harold

I have to respectfully disagree with the thinking that having wife stay home is some sort of universal value. If women want to enjoy equality, as they should, then they should be prepared to work and earn money. Also, not every wife can be a great contributor if she stays home, some are not great at being homemakers. I do not eat fresh pies since I am on a low carb diet.

Chuckle!

What ever steers your boat.

I'm on a watch what you eat diet. I see everything that enters my mouth, and I'm not restricted by anything but my desires.

Personally, I've always enjoyed having my wife at home, once I was able to provide enough to permit her to be there. Even the first one, who worked for the first 7 years of our marriage, although she managed to have more than a full schedule on the side, if you get my drift. I can say with a clear conscience, getting rid of her was the best thing I ever did. She made pies, too. And other things. Sigh.

Harold

News flash! Men and women are not the same! I don't care what anybody says, we are built different, and we think different. That makes women better for some tasks than men, and men better for some tasks than women.

BTW, how many of you have actually figured the cost involved with having 2 bread winners in the family? Wear and tear on another car, nice clothes, baby sitters, eating out more often, having somebody else raise your children and establish their values.... My wife doesn't have good job skills (read she wouldn't make a lot of money), and we have 4 children still at home. She contributes much better to the well being of our family by staying at home.

My hat's off to you, Dave. I can't help but believe that much of the trouble with decadent children of today is the lack of proper guidance at home, often because of parents that are too permissive, having been spared the learning of manners as children themselves.

Aside from the minimal contribution to the family income when many women take menial task type jobs, the loss of a good and wholesome home environment makes the cost of the second income far more expensive than many realize------yet they gladly send their spouse off to work so they can buy that *needed* boat.

Being a house wife is a serious job (when taken seriously, anyway)----one that should command a lot more respect than it does.

Harold

Just as there is no other reason for getting fat, than eating too much, there is also no other reason for general inflation, other than the government printing too much money.

There is nothing immoral about wanting to be paid more. We'd all like to make more money, but the ability to pay more money depends on the amount of money available.