Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button. Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator

You'll need to be more specific about which control you have. There are motor/generator, thyratron, and solid state controls. And several variations among those. The "modular" thyratron controls have two 1 minute timers, but I'm reluctant to spend time with the schematic without knowing if I'm looking at the right one.
--
Ned Simmons

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responding to http://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/our-monarch-10ee-relay-drops-out-1-minute-after-puching-the-560451-.htm , tmackinator wrote:

Thanks for the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is the last iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I found was the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more modern diodes of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected and surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also. We had replaced the small c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one morning the lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly. That will really wake you up!
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:18:02 +0000, tmackinator

That's the modular thyratron control I mentioned. Those old cartridge diodes are hard to get hold of. In the 10EE I owned I replaced 4 of them that were in a bridge configuration with a packaged full wave bridge. I'm glad you were resourceful enough to get it going again.
You've probably already figured it oout, but the common thread in your symtpoms, problems, and solution is they all appear to be related to the motor field.
--
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator

1. Bad transformer 2. Bad relay 3. Bad switch 4..and most likely...another device in the run that is dying 1 minute after turn on.
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wrote:

    Which 10EE? There are at least three types, maybe four.
    The first three with the same DC spindle motor
1)    The old motor-generator style.
2)    The type with tube electronics.
3)    The type with sold-state electronics
    The next one a factory retrofit
4)    Three phase spindle motor with VFD controlling the spindle     motor.
    I suspect that yours is (2) above -- and perhaps a burnt out tube results in an unbalanced current draw, and triggers an overcurrent as soon as the remaining tube filaments heat up. (Or, there could be a thermal delay relay which waits until the filaments are expected to heat up, and then switches on the DC power -- which could trip an overcurrent sensor if there is a bad tube.
    But it could be in any of them -- just less likely for me to think of what is the probable mechanism.
    More information likely from people who actually own such machines. I just wish that I owned one. :-)
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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responding to http://www.polytechforum.com/metalworking/our-monarch-10ee-relay-drops-out-1-minute-after-puching-the-560451-.htm , tmackinator wrote:

Hi Don this is a repost of my reply to another response to my issue:Thanks for the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is the last iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I found was the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more modern diodes of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected and surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also. We had replaced the small c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one morning the lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly. That will really wake you up! The lathe would switch off at about exactly a one minute interval which I now suspect was caused by the filiment timer not sensing some type of current draw due to the open diodes in rec3? BTW, we have two of these machines, one tube type and one solid state type. These are just excellent to use, they have spoiled me for other lathes!
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wrote:

    [ ... ]

    Great!

    I hope that it did not have the maximum size chuck installed at the time.

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    I'll bet. We had one at work -- one of the motor-generator style, FWIW, with a bad tach, so spindle speed was a guess. Just tune it by ear. :-)
    Glad that it is now working for you.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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wrote:

However..you only want ..seriously...#3
Maybe #1...but definately NOT #2
Gunner
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