pacemaker

Oxy-Acetylene shouldn't be a problem at all. Because of the possibility of electric shock, almost any other type could pose a possible problem, I'm supposing. Respectfully, Ron Moore

Can't honestly say. I would say consult the manufacturer of the pacemaker. Should have an 800# or some help line. I had a five way bypass and an aortic valve replaced. They told me to never touch another power tool.

But, did I listen?

Steve

The concern is the RF field generated by the welder - its a BIG spark transmitter. The cardiologist is non commital - , as will be the manufacturer - NO WAY are they going to tell you ANYTHING that could possibly bite them in court.

Any medical device MUST meet certain standards of RF immunity - what they are, I dont know. Are they applicable on Wednesday afternoon in April while welding steel plate with a green coloured welder with red leads? (full moon optional) - These are the sort of questions that lawyers make lots of money about interpreting.

A prudent man would ask the cardiologist what is the worst possible fault mode of the device - do you die, or start running round the yard clucking like a chicken? Do you get to finish the weld before this happens?

And I guess I cant say yes or no either - how about you do a search and see if anyones pacemaker has actually gone faulty due welding?.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lawyers don't interpret, they attempt to manipulate. Judges and/or juries are supposed to interpret.

Pete C.

Well, they don't want to say it's fine and have you drop over dead, so they're not going to give you anything the manufacturers don't.

Well, lead is more for ionizing radiation (xrays, etc) than the sort of shielding we're talking about here.

Well, not a great substitute, but gas welding or brazing wouldn't have the electrical aspect of it. I'm not sure you're going to find anyone who will tell you "yeah, that'd be fine" on any shielding you're able to come up with. The manufacturer would be crucified by the FDA (they don't play around), the docs don't want to take on the risk, and it's questionable if anyone else is really qualified to answer the question.

(I worked in the medical device industry for about 15 years).

Dave Hinz

Actually, they do--when they disagree on interpretation, _then_ the judges and/or juries get into the act.

a lot of info is available if you google "arc weld" + pacemaker. here's a sample:

PACEMAKER PRECAUTIONS

# Do not arc-weld. Electromagnetic fields may interfere with your pacemaker function. # Do not do mechanical work on a running car or engine. Small electromagnetic fields are present. # If you are to undergo magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), inform the doctor or medical staff that you have a pacemaker, because this procedure can pose problems for your pacemaker.

--------------------------------------- Sounds like arc welding is a process you'd best avoid.

Good luck,

Red

I found this link care of Google:-

They seem to be slightly less paranoid than some.

regards Mark Rand RTFM

For the RFI shielding, I would probably personally try something like two layers of chain mail (fine rather than large rings would be lighter), with a layer of aluminum foil between them. But -- your arms are still going to be big antennas conducting the RFI into the body cavity, so I'm not really sure whether that would be sufficient. I might bet *my* life on it (if I had a pacemaker), but I would not suggest betting *your* life on it.

Good Luck, DoN.

Well, first you need to check what sort of device you have, and what the specific problem it is there to treat. If it is a plain pacer, with no defibrillation capability, and your problem is just plain slow hearbeat, then it is pretty likely the worst the pacer could ever do is shut off. They are supposed to shut off when an external defibrillator is used, then swich back on some short time after the defibrillator is done blasting you. If the pacer is DESIGNED to tolerate the use of a defibrillator (which it definitely IS) this is a WAY more severe electrical current through the body (several amps at 1000+ volts for milliseconds) than any welder could possibly deliver. The magnetic field of the welder is fairly strong, but it isn't as massive as a lot of other things, unless you are welding a part that is resting on your chest (not too likely). Anyway, in the case of a pacer shutting off, your heart will slow down, and you might faint. This would not be good when handling a welding torch, and if you were in a position where falling could cause more injury, then you'd want to avoid such positions.

Anyway, I tend to be a bull about this sort of scare-mongering, like the fast food restaurants that have labels on the doors warning pacemaker-equipped people to not even enter the building. What I'd do is have somebody standing by who was instructed on how to make the welder safe (turn it off) and such details, and then go for it, knowing that the worst likely outcome would be fainting or lightheadedness.

Now, if the device is actually an internal defibrillator or other device to prevent/ correct heart arrythmias, that is another story entirely, and you don't want to risk driving one of these crazy, or having it shut off just when you need it most.

Jon

Sure! Just get one of these:

I'm not a weldor, but I sit in an office that has people welding about 10 feet (3m) away, and every time they strike an arc, my monitor distorts. Kind of a twisty effect, from the magnetic field from that big one-turn loop from the welder, to the part, to the arc, to the electrode, and back to the welder.

Other than a mu-metal shield around your chest, I'd ask your cardiologist.

Good Luck! Rich

I have an ICD (implantable cardiac defibrillator) in my chest and wa

told that Mig welding was OK . My machine is about 150amps , I don' use it that often but have been back for check ups a number of times an the ICD is functioning fine (and it has not had any reason to discharg thankfully ) .

If I remember correctly the cardiologist said that stick welders o Tigs generated too much interference .

He recounted a story to me whereby a patient came in for a checkup few months after fitment and they discovered the batteries were flat At first they thought it was a faulty device but it transpired that th chap was working as a car mechanic . Apparently leaning over running alternator will flatten the battery of a defibrillator or pac maker very quickly .

I'm fortunate to live in United Kingdom and got this device fitte under our state funded National Health Service which aims to give universal access to health care based on clinical need .

The politicians like to pick on it as a soft target but it has com through for me and many of my loved ones and we don't have too muc else to be proud of these days .

PS As John says , you don't want one of these devices to be disable for when it is needed as you may not get a second chance . If th electromagnetic radiation is severe enough (we are not talking abou nuclear explosions) the device I have will be deactivated for a fe seconds . Since I don't weld for a living statistically the ris for me is very small

-- striebs

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 23:18:35 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, striebs quickly quoth:

I wonder if something like a well-grounded suit of chain mail would disperse it. That would be a bit like putting your body in a Faraday cage, wot?

Congrats on your benefits from a working healthcare system.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- The more we gripe, *

longer God makes us live. * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

Well, that's kind of the idea of the mu-metal platemail someone else alluded to. Not sure it has to be grounded, it just has to be more permissive than your body. That said, you've still got those two big antennas sticking out each side of the torso, and I for one would take this as a signal to learn to gasweld.

*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from ***

Fitment of an implantable defibrillator plus one overnight stay i cheap but the unit itself is very expensive , something like 30,000 US . The UK healthcare budget per person per year is slightly under 2,00 USD and I'd be happy to pay a bit more in taxes to improve it furthe

The major concern is the magnetic field. Some pacemakers contain a magnetically activated reed switch to turn them on and off.

The high current running through the cables creates a strong magnetic field. In that the field is difficult to characterize, it may be prudent to learn new oxy-acetylene techniques.

If you want to have someone else modify the welding setup and measure the fields in an attempt to get the levels low enough, you may want to try:

Running the cables in a(steel)conduit. Could be Greenfield. Grounding the conduit will help with RF EMI issues.

An additional sheet steel enclosure around the welding power supply. (Mu Metal is expensive and a pain to fabricate).

Protective clothing? One of the common cable wraps for magnetic shielding is Monel mesh. Chainmail borrowed from the local SCA chapter may also work.

Whatever you do, don't put it into practice until you know it will work. Good luck in getting a "safe" flux level from the pacemaker manufacturer.

Kevin Gallimore