The ol' 10K has had quite a workout for the last few months and I was thinking to do something nice for it for Christmas. For the past 10 years it has gotten by with a cheap QC post that used to be advertised in HSM. I was thinking it would like an Aloris AXA type post.
The real thing is outside the budget for a poor boat builder. Are any of the knock offs at least usable? Is the AX taper pretty standard? In other words will the knock off posts handle real Aloris holders?
Now there is something I will have to try on my wife..........My old BP mill has been doing a lot of work, so I think it only fitting to buy it a new set of collets for Christmas...........I like that!
I have yet to find an import tool block that did not work on an Dorian or Aloris toolpost or visa versa. Some may have a bit more tolerance in the dovetail and make the handle go a bit more to the one side than usual, or one may be a bit more snug fitting on but they all fit and work fine. Phase II makes a pretty decent one. IIRC I think Air GAs often has a special on import sets around 140 ro 150 bucks with 4 of 5 tool holders. A few ogf my friends have bought these and they work just fine. May not have the nice smooth shiney black oxide, but they work and work fine. Better than the HF brand and seems like a good deal to me as a toolpost and 4 or 5 toolholders for 1/2 of what just the Aloris or Dorian toolpost would cost
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I have the Harbor Freight piston type and it works fine for me but I only have a JET 9x20. I'm sure your 10K is quite a bit more substantial. A friend recently purchased a Phase II wedge type from Enco and is very pleased with it. When he first received it we took one of my holders and tried it on his post and it was a tight fit, tight enough that we didn't force it because we didn't want it to get stuck. In the other direction though, his holders worked fine on my post.
I've never heard a bad word about the Phase II tools and they're still on sale at Enco. Just go to
click on their "Shop Hot Deals" link and look for "Turning" under the Machine Tool Accessories section. Then click on the "Page 28" link to look at the actual page in the catalog so you can see the regular and sale prices of all the models available.
If you're trying to decide whether the wedge type is worth the extra price over the piston type search Google Groups for earlier discussions on the topic. It's been discussed here more than a time or two. :-)
Best Regards, Keith Marshall email@example.com
I have the import piston type on my 10K, and I have put many many miles on it... at least for me. I have made my own tool holders, but it's far easier to just grab some when they are on sale. Cutting those dovetails on my mill/drill takes quite a bit of time.
The ONLY tool holder that does not fit is the Dorian. I have the unit that includes an integral TPG-32x holder on each end. When placed on the left side dovetail it was too loose for the piston to clamp, and it won't fit on the back dovetail. I used superglue to attach a shim so it would clamp on the left side, and I managed to grind away *almost* enough to fit the back dovetail. It's a bit of a shame, maybe I'll revisit it. It is _the_ tool for me when turning tough material. It's extremely rigid when compared to the
3/8" shank carbide index tooling I usually use. So it's very worthwhile having.
It could be argued that the poor fit is a lack of tolerance on the import unit. But it seems odd that this is the ONLY piece that fits so poorly. I have had no problems with either genuine Aloris, or (obviously) the import AXA/100 series. And I would consider it quite possible that other Dorian parts would fit just fine. I had the same issue with a genuine Jacobs R8 arbor for my mill/drill. Made in USA (if they still are) is hardly a guarantee of quality - as we all know.
Over the years, there has been a lot of bandwith over piston -vs- wedge, import -vs- Aloris, etc. I can say that with my import unit, aside from those "things" they call set screws, that it has been 100% reliable, and repeatable. I set my tools on center & forget it. No matter how many times I remove the post or the tools, it just keeps working.
I replaced the center bolt, and made my own clamp shoe - you have to machine it anyway. I also put a nice brass knob on the handle.
I couldn't imagine NOT having the QC tool post. I started with a Taig lathe, so my first experience was with the "european style" tool post - rather a rigid box -vs- the lantern post. I have always hated the lantern post, admittedly it can do things that others cannot. But that is it's proper place in my world- relegated to those special occasions when other tool holders won't work. I then used a 4-tool turret. That was a vast improvement and I do miss the ability to index the tool post (easily).
I switch from turning, facing and chamfer *all* the time. I have a boring bar I can drop in and go with for quick jobs. Threading and parting. I also have a 2mt holder that I have used for drilling, admittedly not often.
Glenn, I have a 10K that I bought new from SB in '81. I bought a German Multi Fix size A then for the K. I have a 13 X 40 SB late model and on that I have a knock off Aloris. I have since bought a Multi Fix B, but have not installed it yet. My experience is that there is absolutely no comparison between the Multi Fix and a Aloris type QC tool post. The Multi Fix's main advantage over the Aloris is the ability to rotate the tool holder in 15 degree increments without having to loosen the mounting bolt. They are otherwise comparable in stiffness and utility. The Multi Fix new is about the same price as a Aloris new. The big difference is that there are no knockoff Multi Fix toolposts that I have found. The knockoff that is in use on my 13 X 40 works well, but the tool clamping screws are crap. They are either too hard and crack or too soft and burr over. I have changed them all. However, all is not lost, Multi Fix QC tool posts are available used and new on ebay.de. Do an advanced search from ebay.com and choose Germany. The results will then be in English, except for the item itself of course. As a side item, the Type A is much cheaper and more common than the larger sizes. You would not regret buying a Multi Fix. Good Luck, Steve
I have the Aloris version of this, the 16N for negative rake inserts. It fits well on both the turning and the facing stations on my wedge-style Phase-II series 200 (BXA size).
For the loose fit in the turning position, it is because the Dorian posts, like the Aloris and other wedge style ones, do not really
*care* how deep the dovetail is -- just that the *width* is within reason. Since Dorian does not make a piston style toolpost, perhaps they have a standard dovetail depth which is deeper than the piston style require.
As for the facing/boring station -- perhaps the dovetail is a bit wider on that one. It would be interesting to see what you would get measuring the dovetail width over some appropriately sized drill rod, and seeing how much they differ.
The very fact that the same toolholder is too lose on one dovetail, and too tight on the other does suggest that the problem is with the post, not the holder. With wedge style, the effective width of the dovetail is adjusted to lock the holder, so it is able to handle a wider range of dovetail widths smoothly.
The same with my Phase-II wedge style -- and it handles every Aloris tool holder that I have tried with it.
The only lantern style toolposts which I have are for the 6" Atlas/Craftsman lathe (which I no longer really use), and for the shaper, which is perhaps a better use for a lantern style toolpost. :-)
Even my little Compact-5/CNC has a quick-change toolpost -- though it differs from both the piston and the wedge styles. It has a pair of female vertical 'V'-ways in each toolholder, and a matching set of male 'V'-ways in the post for each station. It *does* have a piston, but the head of the pistion fits into a T-slot in the holder, and
*pulls* the holder firmly onto the ways, so it locks up as solid as the wedge style toolpost does.
Are you turning the post for the chamfer jobs? I just have another holder, with an insert tool which is neither left-hand or right-hand, but rather is pointed straight ahead. This gives me a nice chamfer either from the turning or the boring station, without having to disturb the setup of my toolpost parallel to the axis and the chuck face. Now, if I could figure a way to keep it aligned when I change the angle of the compound, I would really be happy. :-)