I'd like to find some of these holders for series 100 or AXA size QC
I wonder if anyone would know where to buy the adjustable, dovetailed
QCTP tool holder accessory that utilizes carbide inserts.
I have seen QCTP optional/alternative holders of a style that aren't
included in the QCTP sets, that inserts are secured to, but I can't
seem to locate them now.
HHip used to sell a tool holder that held small triangular carbide
inserts, for QCTPs. The holder was a double-ended holder, with a perch
(plinth, seat) on each end for mounting the inserts.
I searched the HHip and JTS Machinery websites, but wasn't able to find
One eBay seller has this style of holder at $40 plus $10.86 s/h
Item # 150077408967 (seller states that this holder is type/style 16).
A similar holder is the Aloris CA-16, for 16N inserts, or may also be
known as a AXA16N holder, but it appears to use different inserts.
According to Wild Bill :
Look for Aloris AXA-16 or AXA-16N depending on the inserts. I
use the BXA-16N for my Series-200 toolpost. The difference between the
16 and the 16N is that the 16 uses triangular positive rake inserts,
offering three working corners, while the 16N uses triangular negative
rake inserts, which can be flipped over to provide a second set of three
working corners. (The Positive rake inserts must have a clearance angle
on the edge, while the negative rake has the clearance provided by the
angle at which the insert is mounted, allowing square edges.) If you
want positive rake cutting (pretty much a necessity if your lathe is
not very rigid), get the inserts with a special chipbreaker groove which
provides an actual positive rake at the cutting edge. That is what I
use, and they are *much* more durable than any positive rake inserts
that I have used -- thanks to having more meat under the edge.
Not all vendors list them -- but Aloris makes them, and MSC does
carry them. Note that in my experience, the ones on eBay tend to wind
up with prices near that of new holders, so I figure that I might as
well buy new to start with.
Interesting -- I've not handled a genuine Aloris 16 (though I
have and regularly use the 16N by Aloris), but I think that the genuine
holder has the inserts rotated a bit compared to what is shown. At
least my 16N has them rotated so that one edge is parallel to the
surface opposite the dovetail. Note that nowhere in the auction does it
explicitly claim that it is made by Aloris -- but it suggests that it is
compatible with Aloris toolposts.
The angle of view makes it difficult to tell whether the holder
has replaceable carbide anvils supporting the inserts. The genuine
Aloris one which I have does, and this can make a difference in breakage
Not quite the same. CA (and CXA) are much larger holders for
much larger toolposts. But Aloris makes the 16 and the 16N toolholders
in AXA and BXA sizes as well. I have the BXA-16N, and a friend has the
AXA-16N, since he already had an Aloris AXA toolpost. Note that the
Aloris ones are much more expensive than what is shown in the auction
you indicated -- but I consider them worth the difference.
O.K. I just went to Aloris' web site and searched for the
AXA-16 and found the following page:
which shows the orientation of the insert edges the same as my BXA-16N,
and shows the carbide anvils under the inserts.
You can also download their full catalog in PDF format from that
site, which may help you in identifying things.
Best of luck,
I was assuming the HHip and perhaps the eBay item are made in China replicas
of the Aloris holder. A sorta-close facsimile of a real tool, which is what
the China producers do.
Yes, it's not easy to see if the eBay holder includes anvils to place the
inserts on top of (but looks like it might), and I don't have much interest
in a seller that doesn't take the time to describe their items. This seller
may be a decent fella, but he didn't even take a few moments to state that
the inserts (or wrench) are included in the auction.
I seem to remember that HHip's replica holders were ending up at around
$25-30, plus s/h, and they included the inserts and wrench. They were like
the one shown in the present auction, with the tip of the insert pointed
straight into the workpiece.
The Aloris holders have the insert rotated as you mentioned, and appear to
me to be a more thoughtful, better design.
The insert info you provided and decribed are very helpful to me, as I
haven't ventured into the area of carbide inserts yet. I've been relatively
successful at grinding HSS tools, and I've just obtained some additional new
information in a book.. Shop References for Students and Apprentices (by
Machinery's Handbook Industrial Press).
According to Wild Bill :
Aloris does not include either the inserts or the wrench with
theirs -- though it uses plain Allen hex wrenches for everything
involved in mounting the anvil, the insert, and the chipbreaker. But
the PDF catalog lists what are the right size inserts for each holder
(AXA on the page with the description -- page 14, and BXA and following
on the next page -- 15). They list two for the BXA-16N (the one of
greatest interest to me), with different grades of carbide optimized for
different workpiece materials. And you can order them from MSC with
various coatings as well as different grades. I already had a lot of
appropriate inserts from other tooling (Valenite or ISCAR, IIRC), though
I did order a batch of the TiN coated ones which were put on sale by MSC
a while back.
Note that in general you can make a *sharper* tool grinding your
own HSS or Cobalt steel tooling. Especially if it is TiN coated, as
that process tends to round the edge a bit. (But the carbide is
intended for use with heavy cutting loads where the edge seldom sees the
workpiece -- it splits off above the edge.)
However -- I do have some carbide insert tools which are quite
sharp. They are not coated, and are rather polished in finish, and are
made to fit shanked tool holders for my little Compact-5/CNC. I also
use those on the 12x24" Clausing when finish is important, after rough
cutting with the TiN plated carbide inserts in the BXA-16N.
Note that you will get sharper inserts -- even with the TiN
coating -- if the metal under the coating shows signs of polishing. If
it is a matte finish on the inserts, it probably also does not have a
very good edge. The threading inserts (which can't be used in the
?XA-16 holders) are typically nicely polished under the TiN coating, and
produce a nicer finish on the workpiece.
Where I do grind my own HSS tools is when I need an unusual size
(or one which won't fit my insert tooling), such as the larger Acme
threading tools. Those above a certain size need a larger shank size
than my BXA holders can accommodate -- especially for internal
Also -- I will grind form tooling when I consider that to be
beneficial -- such as for crowning screw head prior to slotting, or
crowning English concertina buttons, which have pretty much the same
contour as the heads of the screws used in the instruments. :-)