Re-drilling trailer hubs?

I have a 4x6 Fruehauf trailer that has 6x5" hubs (6 studs on
5" center), can I drill and tap it to 5x100mm to mount other
wheels? Will strength be compromised? I can't seem to find 5x100mm
hubs for it anywhere and adapters are $100 each...
Reply to
Terry Keeley
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that doesn't sound like a good idea for a couple of reasons: The biggest issue is that the hub probably has bosses cast in the back that are arranged for 6 bolts. Going to a 5 bolt arrangement will compromise things. The other issue is the hub size. Can you even get a wheel that will fit over the hub and still pick up the new l00 mm (less than 4") bolt pattern?
Terry Keeley wrote:
Reply to
RoyJ
So I can mount these rims:
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Reply to
Terry Keeley
Yanno, the wheels on the trailer do not /have/ to match the tow vehicle. Unless there are other good reasons for totally changing the wheels that you haven't mentioned yet, my vote is for the old standby motto - KISS. Keep it Simple...
I'd just get fresh tires, a spare tire and wheel for the trailer, a bracket or U-bolt tire mount for it, and leave well enough alone.
Depending on the design of the hub, you may not be able to modify it. I've seen hubs where the stud holes go through cast-in thicker areas of the hub casting, and if you try drilling another set of holes they will go through thinner sections of the hub metal and not have the needed strength. And going from six to five lugs means one or two of the new holes is liable to intersect an old hole...
And don't forget the bearing housing diameter - the wheel inner hole needs to bear on this shoulder for proper location, and a metric design wheel probably will have a different hole diameter. That puts extra loads on the studs and nuts.
If this is going to work, you need to start with a partially machined raw hub casting - they can true the face and bore the bearing seats, grease seal and grease cap areas, but you need to do the finish cuts on the wheel mounting face and the outer bearing 'hub' area (to get the diameter for the metric wheels) and drill the stud pattern yourself.
If you go to this much trouble, make a spare set while you have the tooling set - and take lots of notes and pictures for later.
And if the wheel offset is radically different (which is common on wheels meant for a front-drive car) the tires will sit way too far inboard and can rub on the body or springs, and have the wheel sitting way inboard will put undue loads on the axle bearings. In that case, you would need the adapter ring as a spacer, to get the center of the wheel out over the center of the hub.
If you still want 5x100mm hubs, call Europe - I'll bet they have them over there. Of course, the bearings and axle stubs will be totally different, and you'll have to re-engineer the whole USA'n axle and suspension to make it fit - or buy a complete axle from Europe.
And consider ease of repair - there are only a few standard sizes of trailer axle bearings and seals, and even Pep Boys stocks them - a bit of meatball surgery and you can be on your way in an hour or two. The first time you burn up the bearings on a bastardized setup with odd metric parts, good luck getting replacement bearings and seals in a hurry...
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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
I needed to do something similar (adapting wheels to a different use) and ended up using 1 inch thick 6061 aluminum plate for an adapter. I was able to countersink the plate for the hub nuts and tapped the plate for the lug bolts. I just can't remember what I made the plates for. I can picture them in my mind though. They may have been for a jeep. In fact I'm almost positive I used them on a 1952 jeep so I could run larger diameter rims with good tires. ERS
Reply to
Eric R Snow
I had a VW bug dune buggy once that had something similar to that for Chevy 5 bolt rims. Bolted the adapter plate to the hubs and then the "new" studs were 5 bolt Chevy. Of course VW used lug bolts, which made it easier.
JW
Reply to
jw
Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if they're only remotely metal related :)
Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there and you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt locations so re-drilling is not a viable option.
Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think 6061 with a few holes and 5 studs:
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Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem the strongest to me.
How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd keep the standard hubs and bearings...
Looks like the offset will work OK.
Reply to
Terry Keeley
My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were likely to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk about your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of 58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking that you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of the wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use the lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a raised portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the wheel. ERS
Reply to
Eric R Snow
Roy wrote in article ...
Go back and read the original post s-l-o-w-l-y......
He wants hubs upon which he can mount WHEELS with a 5 X 100mm bolt pattern.
The wheels ARE available.........
Reply to
*
they're
ONLY a few vehicles use the studs to locate the rim. 99% use the center hub since it also supports the load. That is what it is there for. Using wheel studs to locate and support the load is a real good way to get injured.
I would also ask the OP what he intends to use the trailer for? If you intend to load it will those rims handle that load? I would bet they won't. Check those load ratings before you do ANYTHING else.
Reply to
Steve W.
Ahh, a compelling reason... I take it that those match the ones that are on the tow vehicle, right?
Go get one of your rims and measure the backside center hole diameter and depth available. If that hole is smaller than the one on the existing trailer axle, you have a big problem. There usually isn't too much meat left to machine off on the larger hub housing, or you'll hit the outer side of the wheel bearing races.
You can replace the trailer spindles and hubs with the smaller size, meant for use with 4x4" or 5x4" pattern wheels and 8" high-speed trailer tires. That will get you a smaller outer diameter of the hub center, but it's a lot of work.
Come to think of it, a 5 on 4" bolt circle hub is a common boat and tent trailer item, and it is gonna be pretty damned close to matching the holes on a 5 on 100mm rim - my ruler says 100mm is 3.937 inches. Hmmmmm...
Are the wheel lug holes conical seat, or flat seat with a washer? If they're conical seat I'll bet you can't fudge it that much.
You can always track down the maker and get undrilled hub blanks, or have them machine a 5x4" blank hub into a 5x100mm hub. The cast-in bosses on the back of the hub will be in the right places.
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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:03:07 GMT,
likely
about
that
raised
Looks like 6061 would be strong enough then, I had no idea it came close to 1018 in yeild and tensile strength. If you look at the adaptors though, there's no shoulder to help support the wheel as Steve W. suggested. I just don't have a great feeling about using this method all of a sudden...
Reply to
Terry Keeley
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Ahh, a compelling reason... I take it that those match the ones that are on the tow vehicle, right?
Go get one of your rims and measure the backside center hole diameter and depth available. If that hole is smaller than the one on the existing trailer axle, you have a big problem. There usually isn't too much meat left to machine off on the larger hub housing, or you'll hit the outer side of the wheel bearing races.
You can replace the trailer spindles and hubs with the smaller size, meant for use with 4x4" or 5x4" pattern wheels and 8" high-speed trailer tires. That will get you a smaller outer diameter of the hub center, but it's a lot of work.
Come to think of it, a 5 on 4" bolt circle hub is a common boat and tent trailer item, and it is gonna be pretty damned close to matching the holes on a 5 on 100mm rim - my ruler says 100mm is 3.937 inches. Hmmmmm...
Are the wheel lug holes conical seat, or flat seat with a washer? If they're conical seat I'll bet you can't fudge it that much.
You can always track down the maker and get undrilled hub blanks, or have them machine a 5x4" blank hub into a 5x100mm hub. The cast-in bosses on the back of the hub will be in the right places.
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Reply to
Terry Keeley
>
>> >> >> >Great info guys, that's why I like asking things here, even if >they're >> >only remotely metal related :) >> > >> >Never thoought to check the back of the hubs to see what's there and >> >you're absolutely right, there are bosses at the six bolt locations >> >so re-drilling is not a viable option. >> > >> >Found these adaptors, seems a little pricy for a hunk of 1" think >> >6061 with a few holes and 5 studs: >> > >> >
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> >> >Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help >> >locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem >> >the strongest to me. >> > >> >How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to >> >locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd >> >keep the standard hubs and bearings... >> > >> >Looks like the offset will work OK. >> My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were likely >> to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of >> people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk about >> your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an >> ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel >> has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of >> 58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking that >> you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of the >> wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use the >> lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a raised >> portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug >> nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the >> wheel. >> ERS >ONLY a few vehicles use the studs to locate the rim. 99% use the center >hub since it also supports the load. That is what it is there for. Using >wheel studs to locate and support the load is a real good way to get >injured. > >I would also ask the OP what he intends to use the trailer for? If you >intend to load it will those rims handle that load? I would bet they >won't. Check those load ratings before you do ANYTHING else. > > > >
Reply to
Eric R Snow
locations
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>> > > >> >Doesn't look like there's any shoulder to match the wheel to help > >> >locate it, and what about using aluminum for this part, doesn't seem > >> >the strongest to me. > >> > > >> >How about making an adator from some sort of steel with a shoulder to > >> >locate the new wheels? What would be a good material? That way I'd > >> >keep the standard hubs and bearings... > >> > > >> >Looks like the offset will work OK. > >> My guess is that these adapters wouldn't be sold if they were likely > >> to break. But hey, I could be wrong. There are certainly plenty of > >> people who sell bad stuff and get away with it. But let's talk about > >> your specifics. 6061-T6 has a yeild strength of 40,000 psi and an > >> ultimate tensile strength of 45,000 psi. 1018 hot rolled mild steel > >> has a yeild strength of 31,900 and an ultimate tensile strength of > >> 58,000 psi. Cast steel will be similar to 1018. So I'm thinking that > >> you can get by with 1 inch thick 6061-T6. As to the locating of the > >> wheel and adapter look at a wheel. All that I'm familiar with use the > >> lug nut or bolt as the locating device. Your wheel will have a raised > >> portion around each hole and the entrance will be tapered. Your lug > >> nuts or bolts will have a matching taper. This is what locates the > >> wheel. > >> ERS > >ONLY a few vehicles use the studs to locate the rim. 99% use the center > >hub since it also supports the load. That is what it is there for. Using > >wheel studs to locate and support the load is a real good way to get > >injured. > > > >I would also ask the OP what he intends to use the trailer for? If you > >intend to load it will those rims handle that load? I would bet they > >won't. Check those load ratings before you do ANYTHING else. > > > > > > > >
Reply to
Steve W.
Don't forget that the Colt was a Mitsubishi product with either a Dodge or a Plymouth nameplate. [Sorta like the early Neons.]
Reply to
RAM³
WHAT??!! My Dodge Colt was made by Mitsubishi??!! They never told me that when I was buying it! Though it did look a lot like the Mitsubishi Colt down the street. But that doesn't mean anything. I remember when I bought my first cassette player. It was a Superscope. It looked just like a Sony cassette player though. I was suspicioius until I was told that Sony stood for Superscope Of New York. I think that Dodge made Colts in the US and Mitsubishi made Colts in Japan under licence. Yeah, that's it. ERS
Reply to
Eric R Snow
After having a closer look I discovered the difference in offset between the wheels that are on it and the ones I'm mounting is 1.5"! Soooo, I'll need to space the wheel out at least an inch to keep it from rubbing on the inside.
I've decided to make an adpter ring and since the VW whhels I'm trying to mount use 14mm bolts I won't use aluminum, I'll have to make them out of some sort of steel.
Looks like they'll be 1.5" thick and about 6" diameter with a 2.5" center hole. The new 5x4.5" Dexter hubs I bought have enough meat on the center "stub" that I can trim it slightly to go through and help support the wheel.
What I'm wondering is what's a good material to use (thinking just cold-rolled plate?) and will the extra weight hanging on the drums cause problems?
Reply to
Terry Keeley

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