Re: Ford F-150 questions

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>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Likewize - but the FIRST stop with a Drum brake is every bit as >>>>>>>>>>>good as the first stop on a disk - and generally has lower drag. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>There are 2 too many IFs with that: If it's not wet. If it's not >>>>>>>>>>glazed. Disc pads don't glaze and are less prone to warpage, too, so >>>>>>>>>>it only endears me to them more. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Beg to differ on the glazing. Certain pads are VERY bad fo grlazing - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thinking back, I can't say that I have ever experienced that problem, >>>>>>>>professionally or personally. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>And drums most often outlived rotors under "normal" use. Very seldom >>>>>>>>>suffered pitting - and under "normal" use seldom warped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I think our differences may lie in SAE vs Metric equipment. Our drums >>>>>>>>may have been thinner than yours, and our rotors thicker. I recall at >>>>>>>>least a 2:1 difference in replacement. Most of the replacements I did >>>>>>>>for customers was from their grinding off the rivets, shoes, or pad >>>>>>>>backers with their drums and rotors, running 150% of life. One >>>>>>>>caliper cup was damaged when the pad fell out. Those people scare me, >>>>>>>>and they're out there on the roads right now. I heard our paper girl >>>>>>>>drive by the other day, the metal-on-metal brakes squealing as she >>>>>>>>stopped at every house. That's like fingernails-on-a-blackboard to >>>>>>>>me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>A large part of the difference may be that MOST of my customers over >>>>>>>the years had "preventative maintenance" done by me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Only a stubborn few of my "regulars" ever ended up steel on steel >>>>>> >>>>>>I had few regulars in the dealerships and bodyshop, so I had no input >>>>>>to their habits, though I would have preferred it. It's easy to save >>>>>>someone money when they throw it away due to lack of knowledge. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I did get lots of "walk-ins" over the years - but even then I replaced >>>>>>>a lot more rotors than drums, had a lot more "bonded" or "molded" pads >>>>>>>loose their frictionmaterial then I EVER had shoes loose theires,. >>>>>> >>>>>>Early on, that (losing bond rather than wearing thru) was a problem >>>>>>with disc pads. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Still is. >>>> >>>>That's surprising. Granted, I've been out of the field for a long >>>>time, but I haven't known anyone to personally experience it since the >>>>late '60s, nor have I read of recalls. How widespread is it? Import >>>>or domestic mfgrs? >>> Still happens on both imports and domestics - again likely a salt >>>related issue. Not REAL common but I imagine any garage doing a fair >>>amount of brake work up here sees at LEAST 2 or 3 a year. >>> >>>I'm "out of the trade" now for years but still consult and help >>>friends and in the last 5 years I have seen at least 2. (one on a >>>Chevy Lumina -2 out of 4 pads separated). >> >>It's probably a combination of sub-zero temps to high-temp changes >>combined with the salts up there. I'm glad I don't have to contend >>with all that. I worked on mostly dry cars with no rust to speak of.

Oh, darn. I forgot to put in the NEENER NEENER there. ;)

>The one time I had to work under a truck which was dripping on me was >>to run a new wiring loom to the tail of a full, reeking garbage truck. >>Had to change into new clothes before returning to work. So, as to >>ice, salt, or garbage juice, everyone else can have it, thanks. >>Thank you, Fallbrook Refuse (SoCal, avocado capital of the world), for >>the not so fond memories and the wonderful avos. > > > You want to try changing a tire or repairing the apron chain on an >old shit spreader - - - - Or on a chain type gutter cleaner - - - . >Or fix the hydraulics on a pig-farmer's loader tractor in the feild. >In she shop you have the option of using old HOTSY to blast the crap >off - but not on the field. > > The dripping salt water coming off vehicles while you are working on >them is one thing I did NOT miss about my mid-life carreer change!!

I can grok all that after the garbage truck. I'd want an air-conditioned, air-fed hazmat suit to do it today.

Reply to
Larry Jaques
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LOL

10 or 12 is plenty
Reply to
raykeller

The short is between the switch and the gauge unless both sending units are shorted Check the valve that switches the tanks and the switch on the dash---the gauge could be wired to either---have to get a wiring diagram or trace the wire to tell

Put a quart of carb cleaner in the bad tank and drive it on the good tank for a couple days then drop it and dump it replace all ruber fuel lines on both tanks while you are under there---better under controlled conditions than on the roadside somewhere

Reply to
raykeller

The problem will LIKELY be in the tank selector switch. The wire from the guage unit to the selector switch is being grounded SOMEWHERE. Disconnect the wire on the selector and youwill LIKELY get the guage to drop. A spdt switch between the 2 tankj senders and the guage unit will then make it work - independently of the tank switch.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Except yhou need to remember - your Caravan does NOT have either upper control arms OR upper ball joints.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Wieber has said many times that he has electronics skills, and owns several oscilloscopes. For example: "my electronics shop"

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Why would you be giving basic troubleshooting advice to a guy who claims to have an "electronics shop?" Are you thinking there's some planet where electronic techs need basic advice on how to fix a fuel gauge? LOL

Reply to
Straight Shooter

I know a lot of electronic technitians and even engineers who would not have a clue what to look for on an automotive fuel guage - muchless on a dual tank system.

Also, the tools most definitely do not make the man - or the technitian - even if you know how to use the tools.

Fortunatrely I've had a lot of experience inthese things, and I'm willing to share my knowlege.

Unlike somany who know nothing and are more than willing to share THAT.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

LOL!

Wieber never learns. Wieber *can't* learn.

Reply to
Rudy Canoza

Like Wieber.

Yes.

Reply to
Delvin Benet

I relied on the schematic in the factory shop manual when my Ford's pump and sender unit malfunctioned. It showed what to look for and where to access the signals in the wiring harness.

-jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

Techs who claim to charge $75 an hour to troubleshoot and repair machine controls, but who don't know how to read a fuel gauge wiring diagram? Riiiight.

Exactly.

No. If he knew how to use an oscilloscope, then he'd know how to troubleshoot by read a wiring diagram.

But he doesn't. And here's proof, an independent review of his electrical troubleshooting skills.

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There can be no doubt - Wieber is allergic to common sense and wiring diagrams.

Oh sure, I can build a plane, but can't fix a fuel gauge. That makes sense to you? Of course it does. Get a clue. I don't help liars. Especially deadbeat liars. Doubly especially liars who espouse hanging people from lamp posts. If only I had the kind of "Christian" sensibility that allowed me to be OK with hanging millions, eh? Wieber deserves mocking, not help. The best part is that he's more likely to claim to have a fuel gauge repair business than he is to ever fix that gauge. At least we're all the wiser for learning how to use PB Blaster to fix electrical problems.

Reply to
Straight Shooter

Hey, it's only been seven years since it was proven that "tech" Wieber doesn't know what to do with a wiring diagram.

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So what if he hasn't learned since? Maybe he just needs another seven years. :) Try not to be so impatient. And hope that we aren't culled before we get to read Wieber's inevitable post asking why flashlight are often installed in opposite directions.

Reply to
Straight Shooter

Check the charging system. On some of the old EEC IV systems the check engine will come on with bad charging system.

Could also be a bad ground wire (had that happenon Pontiac TranSport.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

The original fuel sender from my 91 Ranger measures 15.0 Ohms empty and 168 Ohms full. The float is plastic. The replacement cost $82.99 at Autozone.

Pull the red tab out of connectors with needlenose pliers to free the pins to pull out the back through the silicone rubber. Autozone sells Ford pin replacements.

In my experience circuits are much more likely to be open than shorted.

The bed bolts are T55 Torx and there's a taillight connector behind the bumper and the fuel filler screws to undo before lifting the bed off. I place a wood spacer behind the cab to protect the paint. It's an easy one-man job with an engine hoist and a 2x6 cut to fit under the top rails of the bed.

-jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

Disconnect the yellow and white wire from the switch - see what happens. Then ground the yellow and white wire and see what happens. On a lot of the later Ford products the guage works backwards from a Chevy and most others.

Your Ford may well have a guage system that reads full when the sender is OPEN and empty when it is GROUNDED.

Thiswould make sense on your truck, having sat for so many years - the very low current through the switch to the senders, and possibly the contacts on the fuel sender units, are oxidized enough that NO current gets through and the guage stays pinned on full.

From Advance AutoParts.com:

To test the fuel sending unit, you will need to fill the tank with gas. Use a multimeter to test resistance. In an old-school classic with analog gauges, you'll need to know how the gauge works, as manufacturers used different electrical conductance to operate the gauge. For example, a Ford fuel sending unit has almost zero resistance on a full tank, while a GM sending unit of the same year has maximum resistance on a full tank. Your repair manual will advise you here.

If the resistance reading is off by several ohms, you have found the culprit. Before yanking out the fuel sending unit, go the affordable route with a bottle of fuel system cleaner. While there are no miracles in a bottle, car forums are littered with posts explaining how an $8 bottle fixed their fuel gauge/sending unit problem. The float on the sending unit may have become corroded with sulfur from low grade fuel, and there is a possibility the fuel system cleaner may resolve the issue. GM technical service bulletin #06-00-89-07BB specifically states to use fuel system cleaner to resolve a stuck sending unit.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Coach battery

The EGR position sensor on an '88 Ford will cause that problem, and being "OBD1" - or technically EEC IV, it will not necessarily throw or hold a code..

Check the connections on the EGR - also check to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN there are no vacuum leaks in the EGR control system. Perhaps remove the EGR valve and clean the heck out of it. The postion sensor may be mis-reading the position, or the valve may actually be sticking

Put your 'scope on the alternator output and check to be sure the output is constant. NOT LIKELY, but possibly the brushes are jumping and the charge is intermittent - which on SOME vehicles will screw with the CEL.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

I have a code reader that plugs into the test connector behind the engine fuse box, but there's a way to view the EEC-IV codes without one, by counting CEL flashes.

-jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

That is true up until 1986. From then on, Ford works backwards.

Tank empty should be ~22.5 Ohms. Tank full should be ~145 Ohms.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

My "Auto X-Ray" unit pulls power from the plug on EEC IV systems.

Owatona units do not.

Don't know about the Snap-Off stuff.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

That's because they are "ford lovers" - they haven't had to workon the beasts!!!

That said, I'm on Fords 5 and 6 right now. #1 was a 1976? Granada Ghia. Then I had an '89 and a '90 Aerostar, and a 1995 Mystique (Mondeo). Other than rust and a few electical problems on the Mystique (due to it's British DNA) I was pretty happy with them.

Currerntly a 2002 Taurus and a '96 Ranger.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

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