As long as somebody is answering the idiot, let's also mention that
concealed carry permits are very rare (you have to demonstrate a need
and pass a multi-part written test, plus a handling test); it is NOT
true that automatic rifles are (or ever were) easy to buy -- in fact,
they are completely illegal except for active militia; its firearms
homicide rate is only midling for Western Europe. Transportation is
allowed only for legal, unloaded weapons and ammo must be kept
When a militia man ages out (34 for regular militiamen; up to 50 for
officers), he has to turn in his automatic service rifle or pay to
have it converted to semiautomatic, after which he can keep it.
I had the pleasure to shoot some beautiful antique scheutzen rifles
when I was a student at the University of Lausanne, in 1968.
classes, taught mostly by Brits, and I only learned survival French. I
got by OK but I wouldn't do it again without being reasonably capable,
if not proficient, in French.
FWIW, Switzerland has four "national" languages, but until 1997
(IIRC), only three "official" languages. Romansch was not official,
and wasn't accepted for legal documents.
Since '97, Romansch is allowed, if a particular Canton approves it,
for internal legal documents. And the federal government will now
reply to inquiries made in Romansch. Apparently, two or three Cantons
have approved it.
Some official Swiss sites now say three official languages, and others
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 14:31:03 -0500, "David R. Birch"
Klaus, being an experienced troll, probably would have responded "But
what about the Swiss Council of States" And is a "half-canton" a state
(there are two of them)? <g>
"Canton" is the common term, used as a description of the geographical
and semi-autonomous government units in the Swiss federation, but they
also use the term "states" used in the names of various government and
Having spent 10 months as a student of Western comparative politics,
at a university in Switzerland, I detected Klaus tying to be a snide
and nasty troll with his question.
Or maybe he's just ignorant. Either way, he just wanted to stir shit.
On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 16:14:36 -0400, in talk.politics.guns Ed Huntress
Oh, if somebody said "state", I'd guess he or she meant "canton"... I
*believe* we derive our term: "county" from that... just guessing.
The issue with usenet is that it's full of experts. It doesn't matter
*what* the subject is; if you don't have an expert right now, you soon
will! Then the expert will expect your deference to his superior
The Swiss have a decent model from which we could learn. At the
national level, we require background checks and responsibility...
close the "loopholes". Let the individual states decide anything
beyond that. The US is a reasonably large country and, WRT gun laws,
one size does *not* fit all. What is appropriate in Wyoming might not
work in New Jersey and visa versa. If a gun owner crosses a state
line, he is responsible for knowing and following the gun laws in that
Generally OK, but consider this. In NJ, we have to get a handgun
purchase permit to buy a handgun. It includes fingerprinting and an
FBI background check of the fingerprints, and an extensive
mental-health check. You need references -- two, IIRC. There is more
to it, and it amounts to something close to the Title 2 application.
It costs $22.
We have no private sales, so we have 100% background checks for any
gun sales. I've been through the process three times (my older guns
are grandfathered in and didn't need the permits). It's annoying, but
And this is the upshot: Despite having the densest population in the
US, with most people living in metro areas, our firearms murder rate
is below average, ranking only 30th in the country.
But that's only part of the story. Relevant to what you're suggesting,
consider this: Of the crimes committed with guns in NJ, ATF crime-gun
traces show that 80% of the guns used in crimes in this state come
from *other* states. This is not surprising, because straw purchases
are almost impossible in NJ and it's mandatory to report gun thefts;
with no private sales, a legal purchaser is an accomplice to murder if
they transfer a gun without going through an FFL holder (typically
$25; I pay $15), and if the transferee commits a murder.
Our gun problem is other states, with PA, VA, SC, and FL being the big
sources. So making it a state's rights issue, which it partly is
already, results in a lot of gun crime here. Probably most of it.
The gun nutz are on the horns of a dilemma on this issue, because the
McDonald decision overrides much of states' rights on gun ownership
and disallows many types of state and local gun bans, as in the case
of Chicago. Of course, they want it both ways: state's rights when the
state laws are lax, and federal supremacy when they're tight --
including through-transport to other states.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:35:36 -0400, in talk.politics.guns Ed Huntress
Yeah, we must close the loophole that allows someone to walk across a
state line. That's Chicago's issue; they're about an hour or so by
rail from Kenosha, WI. If background checks were mandated on all gun
transfers, that flow would be reduced sharply.
That "loophole" won't be closed unless we have uniform laws addressing
it throughout the country, along with Swiss-style requirements for
securing guns and a big change in attitude.
That won't happen, so we'll continue to be the country that has the
highest rates of gun crime and gun homicide in the developed world.
I accepted that as a fact a long time ago, but I'm interested to see
what the kids do about it.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 17:59:44 -0400, in talk.politics.guns Ed Huntress
I hear what you're saying; however, people are getting pretty well fed
At the national level, what we need is pretty simple... in theory! We
need universal background checks (UBC) mandated by federal law. Now,
making that happen won't be simple because it will pull the plug on
the secondary market and this is a *big* cash cow for the gun
industry... and the NRA will shriek like a stuck pig. Implementing
UBC will entail national gun registration, of course; however, there
is no second amendment issue with that. The database technology is
already in place.
Once we get that, a person would not be able simply to cross a state
line and buy from the secondary market because the buyer would then
have to produce identification that showed his or her state residence.
With UBC in place, states would be free to define their own gun
laws... which is as it should be.
But, to do that, we would have to have a political sea change. The
gun industry is not known for playing nicely in the sandbox...
particularly when it impacts their bottom line. UBC are a no starter
with them; honesty and integrity get left rocking in our wake.
Therein lies the challenge; how does one maintain personal integrity
in an environment where none exists?
That 'secondary market' is another of your ghosts. Is that when you buy
a hot Glock in a Baltimore alley? That's not going to change. Bangers
aren't going to do a background check.
What is the volume of this secondary market? Do you have any idea or are
I can go over to Cabela's and buy a long gun after I fill out a 4473 and
they call it in to what is supposed to be a Federal database of people
who cannot purchase firearms.
I cannot purchase a handgun in Idaho. Years ago, even before the Brady
bill, when I lived in NH I could drive over to the Kittery trading post
in Maine and buy a rifle. If I bought a handgun I did not take
possession in ME. KTP had a storefront across the river in Portsmouth
where a KTP employee would meet me with the firearm and the sale would
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 10:37:01 -0600, in talk.politics.guns rbowman
Probably not, of course; however, it will become something like a dope
deal. If I sell clandestine guns, I will likely go to jail at some
point; therefore, I will need a much greater markup; this will drive
the cost up. Cost goes up, demand drops.
Correct. It's already illegal to buy handguns in another state
without going through an FFL. That goes for private sales too.
If Kenosha has such h lax gun laws, why don't they have the same gun
iolence as Chicago? But, but, but... Background checks! Lolz.
It's a Federal Law. It's illegal to buy handguns across state lines
without using an FFL. Your Kenosha example is illegal.
It's already illegal, adding more State laws isn't going to make the
Federal Law any more illeagaler.
How about don't break the law?
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