Removal of stinky coolant



I would say Steve, maybe I will learn a thing or two from using soluble coolant, plus the splash from it on the floor is not as bad as it would be with straight oil.
That said, I remain open to changing my mind.
Would hydraulic fluid, perhaps, be a suitable substitute? I have two sealed buckets of it at the moment, hence the question.
i

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Iggy, Actually, the splash is worse with soluable oil because when the water evaporates it leaves a very sticky film that is very difficult to remove. On that note, I use a very concentrated form of 409 that is sold by the barrel and is used to clean truck taupalins on commercial trucks. It emulsifies oil better than anything I have found and I wash all my machines with the stuff about once a year. The only downside of using cutting oil is that I experience water accumulating at the bottom of the sump on the big lathe. It sits in the unheated part of the shop and experiences some condensation in the winter months, hence the recommendation for the petcock. If oil splash hits the floor, I use speedy-dry and simply sweep it up. I also like the lubricating properties of cutting oil, not present in soluable oil. On your question of using hydraulic fluid, I guess you could, but those lubricating properties of cutting oil would not be there and the fact that cutting oil is much less expensive than hydraulic oil, why would you bother. Here is another possible tip. I order my machine and cutting oils from my local heating oil supplier by the barrel. They can also order the oils in 20 Liter plastic containers. It is much less expensive than an industrial supply house. Of course, that may not be the same where you are, but it is worth investigating. I keep in stock a barrel of light machine oil 100-150 Saybolt and 250-350 Saybolt. The first for spindle bearings (headstock) and the second for gearboxes and machine ways, as well as cutting oil. I do use soluable oil in a portable Cool-Mist system for the mills when needed. Steve

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It would've been far less effort to accept that home shop machines don't need coolant systems, when some others were advising you earlier.
If you're destroying an excessive number of cutting tools because of cutting heat problems, then you might need a coolant system.
If you're experiencing part dimension tolerance problems due to heat generated in the workpieces, then you might need a coolant system.
Instead, you probably want a coolant system just because you want your lathe to look like a real industrial machine (might be worth more at resale if the uninformed buyer thinks he needs a coolant system). Any sensible prospective buyer should be more interested in how the machine has been lubricated during it's past usage.
Actually, all you're doing is wasting your time. Any brush-on or dribble method of cutting tool lubricant (not coolant) would be adequate for any normal lathe operation, for most home shop machines.
If you had read any of the related posts WRT the purpose of coolant systems, and posts concerning what lathe owners do as far as applying cutting tool lubricant (not coolant), you might be able to realize how useless a coolant system is on a home shop lathe.
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WB
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Wild Bill, I tried cutting identical 12L14 steel rods with and without coolant. The finish quality was much better with coolant.
I also bored a pulley, something I coubt I could do without coolant due to a tiny cutting tool tip that would otherwise overheat.
The coolant also does a superb job at not letting the lathe rust in garage conditions.
I do want my lathe to look like an industrial machine and I do not feel that it is wrong. I had this coolant in the lathe since January and it lasted pretty much until now despite some neglect.
The question of what cutting fluid to use is a very good one and I do not make any claims about what is best. But as of now I have no doubts that the ability to use coolant is very helpful.
i
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You always seem to dismiss any number of points that don't support/reinforce your misguided point of view. That practice is becoming very common around here lately.
I believe your last position on foul coolant was it's not a problem because you've proven it by putting a jar of it (presumably covered) on a shelf, and it hasn't gone bad in a long time. Now your exposed coolant in the open-to-air sump is turning foul. A typical reaction could be: no shit.
For rust prevention, the most common and properly effective equipment is an oil can, and at least one good eye. Manually oiling your machine gives you the opportunity to inspect for cleanliness or problems as one puts oil on various parts. It sounds like you feel you don't need to oil your machine because you have a coolant system on it.
Adjusting speed and feeds to appropriate ranges extends cutting tool life. The use of a cutting tool lubricant (not coolant) extends cutting tool life and dramatically improves surface finishes.
The reason there is coolant in a car's radiator is to prevent the engine from overheating. The reason coolant isn't used in the crankcase is because lubricants are far better at reducing friction.
You often ask for advice/help with a situation, then you disregard most points that are rational, and just add a lot of babble that you think is going to convince anyone/someone that you know what you're talking about.
Maybe it would benefit you to spend more time concentrating on the lives of strangers in Alaska. Possibly only a handful of others here in RCM weren't already expecting these events to take place.
I must have missed something important, but getting great-to-excellent surface finishes on leaded steel alloys hasn't been a problem for any more than a few inexperienced or stubborn and misguided machine operators.
As I've suggested before, if you read and applied some of the excellent machining advice that's available here in RCM on a regular basis, WRT feeds, speeds, cutting tool geometry and cutting lubricants.. you probably wouldn't experience poor machining performance on most materials you might work with, or at least you would understand why the performance/finish isn't as good as expected.
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WB
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Excellent.
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On May 9, 1:59pm, Ignoramus11970 <ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11970.invalid> wrote:

Does "without coolant" mean completely dry?
I like to experiment with things like this. The biggest difference I see is between absolutely no cutting lube and a little bit brushed on. I'll start roughing down without any and see what the finish is. Sometimes it's OK depending on the tool sharpness and geometry, feed, speed and the material (often unknown scrap or hardware-store bolts and rods). If the finish is rough I brush on a little cutting oil and then watch. It may need more for each pass, or last a few before the finish roughens. I think the best indicator is to add more when the smoke fades out.
Decent HSS has never overheated on me without cutting oil. The cheapest Enco blue-tube end mills dull quickly on steel at normal cutting speed with or without oil, so I use my remaining stock of them for aluminum while they're fresh, and then for questionable scrap steel at a lower speed.
At work I generally machine plastic dry and aluminum either dry or with whatever cutting oil is in the squirt bottle. The machinists and engineers have their own preferences, some cut faster with flood coolant and others don't to save cleanup time. The Bridgeport I've been using doesn't have it and cleans up quickly with a shop vac. The sticky CNC machines take a lot longer.
jsw
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Wild_Bill wrote:

I do a lot of instrument panels and equipment cases from aluminum, and often have local heating problems with these. A flood coolant system totally avoids the nasty melted aluminum glob all over the cutter problem. This is on the mill.
On a lathe, I have run into workpiece heating to the extent that I have had to leave the lathe running (the chuck jaws act as a centrifugal fan) for 10 minutes to cool down a part where I was removing a lot of stock. A flood coolant system would have allowed me to keep running. But, that has been a pretty rare situation for me on the lathe.
Jon
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I understand what your experiences are for those situations, Jon.
Just for the sake of running these concepts up the flagpole..
There are situations where a continuous flow/flood of liquid are extremely advantageous, such as cutting T-slots, for vastly improved chip removal.
What determines which liquid is best for the particular job, in most cases, is largely defined by the cutting forces. Cutting forces are largely a result of workpiece material but also feeds and speeds.
Cutting tool lubricants will reduce tool and workpiece heat build-up as cutting forces are effectively reduced by the properties of the cutting lube. If it's fed as a flood, it carries heat away, and it's likely to be cooler than the area where the actual cutting is taking place. If the cutting lube is brushed or dribbled onto the workpiece in the area of the cutting forces, I'd expect the properties of the cutting lube are the major advantage.
Generally, cutting forces are reduced as speed is reduced.. if the machine is capable of being slowed down. If it's not, then flood coolant may be a requirement as a backup plan, plan B, essentially. Extra insurance against workpiece and cutting tool damage (or premature wear).
Most home shop users nearly always have the option to reduce cutting forces (slower speed and/or reduced DOC depth of cut), but in production workplaces, performance is time-related.
So for the vast majority of home shop machine users, flood coolant offers no realistic advantages over the diligent application of a quality cutting lubricant.
Basically, very few home shop machines benefit greatly from flood coolant, until you need a helper to wheelbarrow out the chips so the operator can maintain access to the machine.
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Ignoramus31261 wrote:

Yup, pretty good plan. But, really, just washing it out and refilling with a non-growing coolant mix will work fine. I used to have this problem with Tri-Cool, it constantly grew stuff. I switched to Encool from Engineered Lubricants, and while there will eventually be some scum forming, it never smells. I have let it almost totally evaporate over months without any nasty stuff going on. Just pour water in and it is back to normal. I don't use any skimmer or aerator!
Jon
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