Short Hood SA200 Welder Questions

Some time ago I acquired an old Lincoln welder. It's probably nearly
as old as I am. And I'm proud to say it's even in worse shape!
I don't have a vintage. But I'm a 49er and it's probably from the
early 50s. It appears to have a 6 volt generator and starter as well
as a magneto. The engine is a Continental F162.
My wife has just begun taking three courses at our local junior
college: Math, Welding, and Engine Building.
While this welder cannot help her with her math it WILL serve as her
class projects for both the welding and engine courses since the sheet
metal and even some of the structural frame and trailer it's on, have
some rust.
I don't have a clue how long it's been since the thing last ran.
However, I've dumped some marvel mystery oil into it and have gotten
the engine to loosen up enough to turn it over.
I am interested in receiving opinions about how to best proceed with
the restoration. I have always preferred to know going into a project
what components have given up the ghost and which ones may continue in
service.
I believe this is important so as to be able to choose your battles
wisely.
To that end, I'd like to get the thing started. Not only for the
goose bump factor but also to satisfy myself that the dynamo ain't
dead dead dead.
Since I don't have a 6 volt battery I'm wondering if I could just
start it with a 12 volt battery and not hook up the generator?
Also, how do you go about testing a magneto? No self destructive
testing, please. I get enough of that at my chiropractor's...
Once I determine the magneto and generator are ok I'll feel a lot
better about hurling money at the engine, gas tank, radiator, and all
the rest.
I would really like to talk about dis mit Ben Dare and Dunn Datt.
Thank you for your consideration.
Vernon
Reply to
Vernon Tuck
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Is the intent to leave it as a 6-volt system or convert to a 12-volt system? Before spending a dime on it, haul it to the nearest welding supply/repair shop to find out whether replacement parts are available - either to replace the 6-volt or upgrade to 12-volt.
Reply to
Thomas Kendrick
Vernon, This guy
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that he has a supply of hard-to-find Lincoln parts, such as the rebuilt starter being advertised in this item. Good luck, Tom
Reply to
Thomas Kendrick
Don't take my word for it but I don't think you will damage the generator by cranking it with a 12 volt battery, but like you said, disconnect the generator and let er rip, the starter might turn pretty fast tho.
Put a timing light on one of the ignition wires, or, pull one of the ignition wires off a spark plug (or pull a spark plug, hook it to the plug wire, ground it to the block)and hold it about a quarter inch from the block while turning the engine over, watch for a spark to jump from the wire to the block. Or, pull the mag, put it in a vise, hold the lead about a quarter of an inch away from the body of the mag and turn the input shaft. It should turn against quite a bit of resistance for about half a turn, then spin free for about another half. These mags are pretty reliable, parts are redily available at the local parts store. You probably should replace the points and condenser and cap and rotor. The wire coming off the terminal on the mag case is the kill switch, ground the wire and no ignition. Lot's of times folks will put 12 volt power to the terminal thinking they will get fire that way, don't try that. It will overheat the spring on the points and make it no longer "springey". Those old short hood machines carry a large amount of cool factor, I keep threatening to buy an old '55 from a friend of mine but I've got too many as it is. Good luck bringing the old girl back to productive life!
JTMcC.
Reply to
JTMcC
I think everything on those machines is available. Most people convert over to a PC board idle control, and later model spin on oil filter. Both cheap and easy mod's. Quite a few of these old SA 200's are still working away, in professional use.
JTMcC.
Reply to
JTMcC
Troublesome parts on a shorthood, or any lincoln sa200. Mag, carb, high idler. Pipeline welders love shorthood lincolns. Some parts are not carried anymore for the older machines. But where theres a will theres a way. Also disconnect the voltage regulator if you are going to start with 12v. Dont crank for extended times or you will most likely burn up the starter.
Bill
Reply to
Bill Bright
If you have a magneto ignition you might first give the points a quick visual. There should be an end cover to take off? I would not touch any gap adjustments just check to see there is no rust on the internals. Bar the engine over to see if you have an impulse coupling rigged on the mag. As you bar it over it should wind up then suddenly spin forward. You can't see it happening but you will hear a definite clicking sound as the coupling suddenly releases to give the mag a spin. Magnetos have the weakest spark at lowest speed. This type of coupling gives a hot spark at start then locks solid at speed. If you do not have an impulse coupling then you need a relatively high rate of engine turning to create an adequate spark. I would pull the plugs and spin the engine on 12 V. Disconnect your generator and regulator. Check for a spark at the spark plug lead held near the engine block. This little exercise does two things. It gives you a chance to check for a spark and primes the oil galleries that likely are bone dry. If you have a spark then you only need a bit of compression and some fuel. Oh yeah ... People don't realize that to shut a mag off you ground it out. In effect your ignition switch is on when you want the engine to die. Mags are bullet proof. that's why they are used in aircraft engines. Usually new points and a condenser are all that is needed once in a blue moon. Sometimes the welding generator after years loses its residual magnetism. As a result it cannot produce enough juice to power the field windings. Do a LOT of research before shorting the leads to re-excite the generator. You can screw things up if you do it wrong. Ditto for the generator that services your engine battery. The other problem is the welding generator brushes. Older units have a cover that you can remove and check the length and condition of the brushes. In the olden days you could purchase a stick of dressing material. With the generator spinning you press the stick against the commutator. It dressed the commutator and brushes to make a perfect match. I am sure an industrial electrician would know where to score some. I have an old Hobart and if I haven't run it for a year I notice the first welding rod just doesn't put out the amperage but as the brushes rub the oxide off the commutator I am up to power and the old thing saves my bacon again. Randy
Reply to
Randy Zimmerman
Thanks, everybody! As to the question about whether to leave it as a 6 volt system I probably will if everything works in keeping with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy.
If the weather's decent this weekend I hope to put all your much appreciated counsel to work and see if I can get a peep out of her. Some time ago I bought a replacement carburetor. I hope it's the right one. If so I might even get it to start and run.
As to the guy advertising on ebay I ran across him last night but haven't contacted him.
If anything exciting happens I'll post it Sunday night.
Later, Vernon
Reply to
Vernon Tuck
I located the Lincoln Code No. on the welder (1904) and then found their on-line parts information site.
As I believe some of y'all mentioned Lincoln no longer supports this model.
However, I am not sure what this means in practical terms and have emailed them asking 'em to explain.
For example, somebody here mentioned that the idler control can be upgraded, ditto the starting/charging system.
But does anybody know what the practical significance of this is?
I'd hate to spend a lot of money rebuilding the engine only to discover the power generator unit is dead and not repairable.
Is anybody out there knowledgeable of what the dead ends may be?
Thanks! Vernon
Reply to
Vernon Tuck
Generally you will be able to get the parts necessary to get it running. and even if you dont want to spend money to get the idle up working correctly , you can always manually do that. So long as the armature and exciter etc is not missing you are good to go. I am working on my own electronic idle up circuit. I have got all the parts, just need to wire it up and test it. The idle up kit sold online is about 400.00 . I will have about 40.00 in parts in mine.
Where are you located?
Billl
Reply to
Bill Bright
Hello Bill,
I'm responding to your post dated Jan. 24, which I only saw for the first time a moment ago.
I genuinely appreciate the encouragement. For a little while I got cold feet about spending a ton of money on the old girl only to discover she might be irrepairable.
Quite some time ago, on ebay, I bought what I THOUGHT was an appropriate replacement carburetor for the engine.
Only last weekend did I dig it out. It turns out that it's not the same but merely of a similar design.
Until I discovered this I had intended to attempt to start it last Sunday. Now I'm wondering where to find another carburetor.
Of course I can attempt to rebuild that one. But it's pretty rough looking.
I have an old International Harvestor (Farmall) Cub tractor which has a similar carburetor. From what I've been able to tell the engine is a Continental also. But apparently it's a "C60". Since the designation is different I assume it's different from the F162 which drives the welder.
Said tractor is at some property I have about 25 miles from here and I haven't found time to go take a closer look. But I'd sure like to find a new old stock carburetor somewhere.
Otherwise, I guess I'll try to find a gasket kit.
Anyway, that's where things are at. My wife has started an engine building course at the local junior college. Presumably the welder engine rebuild will be her class project.
I forgot to mention in my email that we live in Brenham, Texas. About half way between Houston and Austin. About 45 miles southwest of Bryan/College Station.
Take care. Vernon
Reply to
Vernon Tuck
You'd be surprised what you can do with a "rough" carb - find a rebuild kit and tear into it. If you have a NAPA or other Real Auto Parts Store that deals with power equipment all day, they'll probably have the right carb kit identified and in your hands within a day.
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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
Try Valu-Bilt,
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They have new and rebuilt carbs for nearly any old tractor engine.
Gary
Reply to
Gary Coffman
There is nothing on that machine that is unrepairable, I know of many that see hard pipeline/oil field use regularly.
It is probably a Marvel- Schnebly? rebuild kits atre available at any local parts house that deals with industrial moters. Most if not all parts that wear out will be included. M-S built many an airplane carburator. Forget about scabbing the tractor carb.
For information and parts for your machine, you can talk to Wendell at the Bakersfield, CA. Praxair store, or Chris Blanchard in Oddessa TX at Chris Blanchard Welding Machine Repair (?). Both have extensive experience with these machines. You might want to tell them you are using the machine for home use as opposed to production field welding, that way you can probably continue on your happy way with both the original 6 volt system, and the original vacume idle control.
regards, JTMcC.
Reply to
JTMcC
Wendell is a good ol boy, last I talked to him. They had a pretty good boneyard out back.
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
Reply to
Gunner
From the very first time I began to water at this trough I was - and continue to be - amazed by the people here.
Thanks! VT
Reply to
Vernon Tuck

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