Survivalist question

If those are the two choices you're limiting yourself to, then the 12-ga is the obvious choice. rimfire cartridges are difficult if not impossible to put new priming compound into, and aside from some hardcore DIYers, nobody reloads them. 12-ga will fire with black powder which you can make yourself (if you know what you're doing and are careful), and nothing says you have to shoot lead in it. Wads can be reused, I suppose, in a TEOTWAWKI situation.

Hard to say. But the obvious question is this: why not buy a dozen bricks of primers to keep on hand, and rotate them through as you would any other stock? And what is this "run out of lead" concept of which you speak?

I would look to a muzzle-loader rifle, probably with a bigger caliber than a .22 because you're going to sacrifice powder performance when you go away from store bought. You'll still have to cast bullets, but a bullet mold should be fairly easy -- just make sure you have enough lead on hand to survive until you can start trading for it.

Crossbow! ...flintlock shotgun

(Are you bored today Eric?)

If you start with a bunch of stuff you may have to leave it behind. Or you were not ready when the time came. Whatever, you now have no lead and are forced to shoot rocks. ERS

No, well, I was waiting on hold. You know how that is. ERS

Lewis and Clark used a very powerful air rifle. No powder to get wet, or have to make. They just pumped'er up. They had no trouble taking down a deer or other medium sized game.

--Pellet gun.

Tim sez:

". . . probably with a bigger caliber than a .22 because you're going to sacrifice powder performance when you go away from store bought.. . ."

There would be no sacrifice of performance if smokless powder was replaced with black powder in an ordinary .22 rimfire. AFAIK, the .22 rimfire is the oldest surviving (still in production) cartridge. The .22 is an original black powder cartridge going back to sometime in the 1850's. Smokeless powder replaced black powder over 100 years ago, but the original case dimensions were retained. As Dave said though, priming a used rimfire cartridge case would be a tricky proposition.

Bob Sw>

Cell phone, was it?

Bob Swinney

One of the basics was "If you need to make your own ammo"

I think that precludes all but muzzleloader flintlock shotgun or at least a smoothbore, unless you think you could make primer caps from scratch. I'd look for a modern version in stainless, if such an animal exists.

I'd also keep a very good slingshot and a quality crossbow.

- - Rex Burkheimer

I did not know that -- but then, I was stretching the limits of my limited gun knowledge.

Considering what it would take to manufacture a cartridge, I'd still go with a muzzle loader. Of course then you either need to struggle with a flintlock or you need to be able to make caps.

In fact, if you're not going to rely on trade at all, you may have to regress to a bow & arrow system -- those can be made from local materials, whether you're in the suburbs, the woods, or the middle of a ruined city.

Perhaps if we tried to _keep_ civilizati> Tim sez:

Odd thought - could you adapt one of the BBQ piezo igniters into a "modern" flintlock?

Just do some improvised weapons study. You can rest assured that the terrorist types are getting their training.

I'm rather thinking that preparing for civilizations collapse (it already has in a good chunk of the globe) might be easier than trying to prop up the remaining civilization. Not a nice thought, but probably more realistic.

Pete C.

I've wondered that myself. Might be time to test the theory, just for the halibut.

If you rob the Piezo sparker from your grill, how will you cook the halibut??

I think the prudent thing to do, is to stockpile ammo for a reliable, all-purpose gun or two. I'd suggest a .22 bolt rifle, or perhaps a Marlin papoose, and a revolver. All in stainless. Be sure to buy some quiet ammo to get small game without alerting others to your presence. And have a muzzleloader available also, along with whatever it would take to support it that could not be foraged easily - bullet mold, for example.

Black powder is remarkably immune to short-duration sparks -- both those created by electronic sources, like spark coils and piezo-electric piles, and by static. The flintlock works because little bits of incandescent flint are thrown into the pan.

But if high water came to hell, you could convert almost any weapon to 'match' firing. Not that burying a smoldering wick in a pan of powder is _fun_, but you can get a shot off pretty much when you want. 'Takes a monopod, at least, for hand matching. A match lock wouldn't be hard to build.

LLoyd

But the well prepared survivalist would have a map of all the local shooting ranges where bags and bags of lead could be scrounged. God only knows how much lead is in the berms at my local range, probably tons.

Steve.

No question in my mind. Bow and arrows. Get yourself a good bow, some aluminum arrows and LEARN HOW TO USE THEM. It will take you longer to become a half decent archer than it would to make a bow and some arrows if you lost yours or had to flee without it.

My compound bow and aluminum arrows are with the bugout stuff. :-)

Ted