Is this idea crazy?

As anyone who shoots knows, it has become pretty hard to get .22 ammo. Especially CB shorts and longs. And then when you do find some it is
of limited amount and exorbitant cost. So as I was trying to fall asleep after waking from a hot flash in the middle of the night it occurred to me that I could make my own .22 centerfire brass, cast my own bullets, and use off the shelf primers. Checking yesterday for primer availability I found several sellers with small pistol primers in stock at less than $30.00 per 1000. That's less than 3 cents per primer, about what I used to pay before this ammo buying panic and subsequent gouging started. This morning I examined the bolt on my Remington model 514 and determined it would be pretty easy to make a new bolt for centerfire ammo. And most of the parts from the existing could be used in the new one. I would need to machine cases from solid brass, but I have a lathe with a bar feed setup that could make them really fast. Each case would require two operations so I could run the second operation while the lathe was doing the first operation. I have never really reloaded ammo before though I did reload a few rounds 45 years ago when a friend's dad showed me how his reloading setup worked. He let me load a few rounds but I may as well have never done it before because it was so long ago. But from reading about it online it appears that spent brass cases can usually be used 4 or 5 times, and some times even more depending on how light or heavy the load is. I have lots of pure lead and making a mold would be pretty easy. But would a machined case be as durable as a formed case? And since the smallest primers I can find are .175" O.D. and .22 brass is .224" O.D. there would only be a .0245 wall thickness between the primer and the case outside. Then again, since the case is trapped in the chamber maybe that's not a problem. And I would be using black powder or black powder substitute, not smokeless powder, since my aim is to make low power quiet ammo for target practice. I have a small revolver and two rifles that I could convert to centerfire without too much work. So, am I nut to consider this? Thanks, Eric
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:08:12 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

You probably will get a flood of responses, so I'll pipe up once and then retreat. <g>
1) John Browning designed the .25 ACP around the smallest-diameter cartridge (base diameter .278 in.) that he felt would be safe with a small-pistol primer. The cartridge is semi-rimmed; tricky but not impossible to extract with a simple extractor.
2) Performance is similar to a .22 LR; slightly better in very short barrels, slightly less in longer barrels.
3) Machined brass is not as strong as formed brass, so you need thicker walls if you machine it. 'Better to use existing commercial brass.
4) If you get fancy and decide to neck it down to .22, watch out. You'd be getting into some tricky engineering territory, where pressures build up in a hurry, depending on what powder you use.
5) Black powder is a mess in small calibers. My friend built a .28 cal. muzzleloader years ago, when Douglas still made the barrels, and had to swab the bore after every shot, because of bore fouling. The experts here can give you better suggestions but more likely you'd want to use a pinch of Red Dot or something similar and more modern (I use Red Dot in my light loads).
6) With very light loads, the brass can go on and on for a very long time. However, if you go *really* light, you're going to have big variations in velocity, and can even wind up with bullets that lodge in the barrel. Don't go too light.
Back around 1990 I designed a wildcat based on the .32 S&W long, necked down to .20 cal. That's when I learned about pressures and thin pistol brass. I made a cherry for it on my lathe but I never finished the gun, which was to be built on a replica Farquharson falling-block action that I still have. When I learned about how much potential trouble I was buying myself I backed out.
Unless you want a new, very involved hobby, stay away from designing wildcats. .22 rimfire can't be that hard to get. Some cartridge makers stopped making longs years ago because they're unbalanced and generally give poor accuracy. If you want quiet, buy some classy .22 LR match ammo. You can watch the bullet go downrange and you may have to look to see if the gun fired. <g> But it will drive tacks in a good target gun.
--
Ed Huntress

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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
You probably will get a flood of responses, so I'll pipe up once and then retreat. <g>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 ccm
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicIDG51&caliber=.22&caliberid=5&header=.22%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data
This already gives you the load data. The ability to modify your gun to this cartridge is your only problem.
Robert
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:18:05 -0400, "Robert"

Thanks for the link Robert. I could modify my rifles for this cartridge but I want to shoot CB shorts or longs. These rounds are much less powerful than the CCM rounds. Eric
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On 8/28/2015 6:23 PM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Could be loaded down to whatever you want. Just don't use a slow powder.
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Tom Gardner wrote:

Really . Odd how a slow powder can act when loaded light . "Pressure excursions" can be deadly .
--
Snag



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On 8/28/2015 11:50 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

Funny how nobody has figured out "detonation" or has been able to reproduce it under controlled conditions. I use fast powders for most all my handgun loads. I just bought 3 new powders so I can explore magnum loads.
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On 8/30/2015 3:32 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Unique is like gold and I can't find any. I got 800-x, H110 and Ba9. http://www.vectan.fr/UK/range-of-powders
Look at the Nobel Sports powders, they sell in metric so a small bottle is 1.1 lbs. I have high hopes. I have some questions, I will e-mail.
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On 8/30/2015 3:27 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

That's a LOT! (imho)
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<SNIP>

Greetings ED, Sorry about the long time for the reply. I have been having internet problems and the problem was finally solved about 15 minutes ago. Anyway, with the light loads I want to shoot I am not worried about a rifle that can handle .22 long rifles rounds having problems if a case I made fails. But maybe there are things I don't know about that could make the lightly loaded rounds dangerous. So if anyone knows why my proposed round might be dangerous in either a rifle or a revolver please let me know. I'm also curious about black powder being so messy. At the time my rolling block rifle was made I have been told by many shooters that .22 rounds were filled with black powder. In fact, a friend of mine has a .22 Stevens tip up pistol and he was warned by his local gunsmith/dealer to shoot only .22 subsonic or CB rounds because the pistol was made for black powder filled rounds. Surely these guns and rifles didn't cleaning after every shot, did they? Cheers, Eric
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On Wed, 02 Sep 2015 13:34:56 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

The BP experts probably will chime in here. I've only shot BP in muzzleloaders; I don't know how it behaves in breechloaders, but it is a mess, in any case. It leaves a lot of fouling behind. It also leaves a LOT of sulfurous smoke. IIRC, you were thinking of shooting indoors. That's not a good idea with BP. At my old indoor range, shooting BP was limited to two days per week, and they turned the exhaust fans up to a full roar.
Regarding the safety of your proposed cartridge, again, you need to listen to the experts. Small loads of slow-burning smokeless powders actually can build up very high pressures. I don't know how small or how slow-burning. BP supposedly is self-limiting to around 12,000 psi, but that, too, is a subject for the experts.
Go with the airgun. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress

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wrote in message

Maybe? but there is a easier way. Just reload the 22lr yourself.
http://22lrreloader.com/
Robert
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:42:31 -0400, "Robert"

I looked at that device. Maybe if I was a prepper. But scraping the white stuff off of strike anywhere matches to make priming compound is a pretty lame way to re-load .22s. Besides, if this method becomes popular then strike anywhere matches will probably cost 20 bucks a box. Eric
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snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Eric , you didn't look at the link . They have priming compound ... and I considered buying some for the making of percussion caps for my muzzle loader . But I think I'll try the toy caps I bought first . The compound is only 20 bucks for enough for 1,000 (2,000 ?) rimfire cartridges , probably yield about the same for caps .
--
Snag



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wrote:

Greetings Terry, Sorry for the late reply. Router problems. I did look at the link, I watched the video abouit using matchheads, and decided it was all too much trouble. But I looked again after reading your message and did find the priming compound. It is only mentioned by clicking on the buy/checkout link. But I am really interested now. Thanks for pointing out to me the availability of the priming compound. Eric
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:30:57 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Absolutely, but nothing we didn't already know. <gd&r>
I've looked monthly for going on 3 years now and haven't found a brick in stock anywhere locally. And I don't want to shoot up my last brick, so I'm not shooting .22 any more. <sigh>

They're like dinosaur teeth any more. Very hard to find, and pricy, as you said. Uckin' fattorneys.
--
The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work until it's opened.
--Frank Zappa
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On 8/29/2015 12:28 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I win on this one, I still have 10 bricks that I got on sale for $15 each. But, it's still cheaper to shoot centerfire for me. Primer=2 cents, cast bullet=nothing and powder is almost nothing. The only expense is time and I can easily load 300/hr. I've been going through 1k rounds/month again, mostly .38 DEWC.
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On 8/30/2015 3:23 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I bought 500 all new Starline brass for my .41. I did a Wolfe spring kit and it's exactly like my 29. I have yet to really explore the 57. I'm looking for a 28 6" Nickle preferred, for <$500.
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On 8/30/2015 3:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Cool! I like those features too, shows craftsmanship. I like those N-frames. What's the best way to handle it, I have an FFL guy here, I can fund you however you want.
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On 8/31/2015 2:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I'll gladly send you a finder's fee, too bad no brushes.
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