The 3 Minute Drill

While I didn't kill it, I had a HF hand grinder(gift I didn't buy it) after about 2 minutes get so hot in my hand I couldn't hold it. Took it apart to figure out why, and found out they had only put one of the two brushes in. I guess that was why there was a baggy of spares in the box. In the process of taking it apart I can tell you why they are so cheap. There is only one bearing in the whole thing. The rest is cheap plastic bushings. The armature is barely balanced. The pot metal gear head is pretty questionable. It's noisy, weak, and basically worth about what I paid for it.

Nothing compared to the Makita my dad has had for 20+ yrs. That's a nice little grinder. I've gone through a case or two of wheels with that thing over the years, where this cheap little HF I think I'll be lucky to use up the two that came with it.

Well, you spent $45 on 3 grinders, one died. Sounds like you're still ahead of paying $50 for one, that might also have gone up in a puff of smoke.

It is called infant mortality, even expensive tools are prone to it because no one does 100% burn in testing. The only real difference is that you'd have to take the expensive tool back for replacement before you could finish the job. With the cheap ones, you just reach in the box and get out another one.

Gary

Gary Coffman wrote: The only real difference is that you'd have to take the expensive tool back for replacement before you could finish the job (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^ There is no reason you couldn't get a replacement for the cheap one. HF has a liberal replacement/refund policy. It is very possible that the vendor would take the expensive tool in for repair, rather than replace it outright--resulting in further delay.

I've managed to get several used DeWalt-made grinders off eBay for $15 each. Mostly Craftsman rebrands. Already pre-disastered! Also got a used 12.7A 5" Hilti for $35.

GTO(John)

Don't you think all of this is, in part, a result of the "wisdom" of removing the industrial arts classes from our learning institutions? If young people were getting exposed to such things during their high school years, perhaps some of them would make choices to enter the fields and do so with some semblance of common sense and knowledge.

There's something drastically wrong with people making decisions such as this for others, especially when it applies across the board for all of mankind. What it does is force those to attend college that have no desire, and won't do good if they do, or they have the option to work for minimum wage and demand more and more for their services, which are clearly far too expensive already. I offer myself as a perfect example of someone that should not have gone to college. I would have treated it no differently from high school, where I did the absolute minimum and didn't know until the day I graduated if I was going to do so. Sure, now that I'm old I can see the value of an education, and even regret not getting one. While I ponder that, though, it's a damned good thing I had my machine shop class to fall back on, because I could have easily ended up flipping burgers for a living considering my lack of education.

Until time came that I was in the right frame of mind where getting an education might have been an alternate choice, there had to be something for me to do, which, in my case, was to become a machinist. I had the aptitude for it, and a strong desire, considering I had a sense of direction in that regard when I was only 13 years old. Yeah, not a very lofty goal, but as least I had a clue about what I wanted to do. How many do not., even when they're in their 20's?

The way I see it in today's society, kids that don't want to get an education have few, if any choices. They end up doing menial task jobs for wages way too high for their qualifications, yet too low to be considered a living wage.

At some point we must get the attention of those in charge of education and reintroduce the "hands on" concepts to young folks so we don't end up with a country full of kids that can't even change a flat on their cars. I wonder, even as I peck away at this, how many are already in that position.

Harold

How right you are. I purchased a new Milwaukee heavy-duty ½" Magnum drill , an 0234-6. Lasted about 15 minutes. Yeah, the warranty fixed it (one of the field windings came loose) but I had to drive 50 miles one way to drop it off, then do the same thing to retrieve it. Buying the "best" isn't always the best choice.

I've purchased several pieces of equipment from HF for use in building our shop and house. Two items in particular are a tile saw and a cement mixer. Both are a piece of junk, but I paid little, and they are still running, and very well. I should get through the construction project with them, at which time I really will have little use for them. The tile saw cost right at $400, including the blade. I had to spend about three hours making the table track parallel with the blade, which involved re-drilling some holes and taking time to properly align the table afterwards, but I was well paid for my time considering a similar US made saw would have cost me $1K minimum. And who's to say it wouldn't have had a like problem? The saw, so far, has cut all the quarry tile for coving in our shop, something like 400 linear feet, plus I cut all the tile for the windows and the shower, which is fully tiled. Considering I'm retired and we live on social security, there's no way I could have justified, nor afforded, having the work done, or buying the US made unit.

Harold

Yep, plus the inconvenience, which I outlined in my post.

Harold

This is very unususal IMO for that company. I've purchased several hand drill motors from that company, and I've never seen a QC problem like that. Either they're getting sloppy, or you 'won' the lottery!

Jim

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There still are voc-tech schools here in our county, and I personally think that it takes a great deal of guts for a kid in an academic school (ie college prep) to 'drop out' into the voc tech track. Used to be that the disipline problem kids got shunted there, I think that policy is no more.

I'm amused that while the emphasis on college track HS education has been taking over, as you say, that the folks who are responsible seem to complain the most when a plumber, electrician, or carpenter is needed to work on *their* home. "Do you know how much they charge?"

My wife was visiting a friend of hers, who had a dryer that quit working. My wife was scandalized to learn that it would cost $65 to have a repair guy just show up at the friend's house, and thought that there was some kind of scam going on. I had to laugh and explain that's the going rate - she didn't know because we've never had a service tech of any kind work on anything in our house. I explained that by the time the service tech shows up, spends two hours there diagnosing the problem, and installs a part or two, that the amortized value of the dryer (8 years old) plus the cost of the service call and parts, exceeds the cost of a *new* dryer.

As for me, I really want my daughter to go to college, and she seems academcially inclined. But I grab her and have her assist on every repair project I do around here. Maybe some will rub off on her...

Jim

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I just bought *another* MK wet saw , I have to watch this one more or chain it down. The best blades that I can find are Detroit Industrial Tools , the one that came with it didn't make onto the saw. Got the last one in town of that discontinued model and cost all together $400. Says all over it Made in USA , says Japan on the motor , never did think it was made here. I know ya'll have thrashed this before , but it shouldn't say that. It should at least be 60% made here or something , who redefined made? Maybe, assembled X% , made X% lables... That would be funny to read on a made in US new car.

Why would you say linear feet? That's 6" or less X 12". My wife wants me to take out the tub and make the tub , pony wall , and more in tile. I do this type of thing for a living and have been putting it off. If a customer asked me to do it , I'd say no or charge so much that they wouldn't call back. I'm still hung up on the plan , like if I should do glass block and cut off a fire escape and how few forms I can get away with. Plus , I wonder how many people wouldn't buy the house becase it wouldn't have a smooth "sterile" surface for the tub.

Oh, I went to 3 Home Depots to get the saw and the blade from another location. You should see my job when you have a diamond blade that goes to hell or kick the GFI and no one is home after your all set up and 50 miles from home. I try to find the most reliable and portable tools I can find no matter where they are made. But not machine tools , sure wish the uncle had his red vertical machine here about now. I could use to abuse it one more time.

I believe that is part of what is happening. But another big reason is that the parents don't do as much as they used to. I had one woodworking class in the eighth grade. No other industiral arts classes. But my dad and my friends dads did a lot to interest us in doing things. My dad and some of the other dads had grown up on farms where people did things. Now most dads work in an office and most things are not meant to be repaired when they break. So I don't think it is all the schools fault. Just part of the shift away from farming and manufacturing affecting schools and parents.

Dan

My sixty drills tend to need a new point ground on.

Dan

Yeah, I realize the vo-tech schools are there, and are likely doing fine, but it can be a little late in a kid's life to introduce some things. By then they're already used to wandering around aimlessly.

I recall from about age 12 how fascinated I was with things electronic and mechanical. I started in shop classes in junior high school, with wood working. Had I not been able to get my hands on a few tools, or go to the library where I checked out all kinds of books on "how to" just about anything (like the books Lindsay sells), I wonder what may have become of me and my interests. Taking radio and electronics, electricity, auto mechanics, drafting, and machine shop in high school supported my interests and promoted my thoughts. It appears young folks are denied these things now, at least the shop portions.

Yep! Interesting how important these crafts are when you're the one in need, yet those steering the ship (even though they may be the ones in need) are doing pretty much anything they can to eliminate people from being trained in these areas. Maybe we can import some from China, like everything else! ????

Agreed. I rarely buy even an extended contract for most items. I figure if it fails, I'll buy another. Fixing almost anything is not reasonable anymore, so it it's beyond my capability, (electronics, for example) I discard and replace. For example, you can buy a new VCR for far less than they want to check one to see what's wrong with it.

In my case, if it's mechanical, not to worry. There's not much I can't repair, thanks to the skills I've acquired in life, beginning when I was a young lad. Had it not been for my high school machine shop class, I never would have been hired at Sperry, where I received my training as a machinist. Officials at Sperry toured our shop, then invited us to tour their facility. At that time we (seniors) were informed that we could apply for employment as trainees. They did that only with a couple high schools. No shop class ---- no opportunity.

I strongly support the concept of college education, especially when the child displays an interest. Not all do, nor will they do well if they are coerced into going. Had I been educated my life may have gone much easier, of that I have no doubt. However, it does young folks no harm to have a little knowledge of things mechanical as they attend, either. In fact, I'm inclined to think it makes the overall learning experience easier because you have a basic understanding of so much more. It's like knowing a second language. I attribute the ease at which I passed my English classes to the fact that I also speak Greek (albeit very poorly now). I never studied, but the subject came easily enough that I could pass the tests and get a passing grade.

I think what you're doing with your daughter is an excellent idea. Another of the readers on this group has daughters, one of which even runs his machines. Stan Stocker told me in past correspondence his then 8 year old had a keen interest in machining. Talk about something to bring him and his lovely daughter closer. I'm thinking that little gal won't be involved in drugs, not with that kind of thinking and guidance, anyway. Way to go, Stan!

Harold

Ha! Maybe you haven't heard about my "luck". A guy can walk down the street with an aching ass and I end up with it!

I've long wondered if I'm just "lucky", of if products are very poorly built. I often buy something new that gets returned because it doesn't work, or work properly. I've gained a very poor attitude towards people that make things, as if I have to tell you that. My ravings reflect my attitude. :-)

Harold

I could get $80 an hour to fix spas , but can't afford the licenses and advertizement. I've replaced the heater coils on the GE dryer and getting lost on identifying which leg is which on the thing. Is there a way to taint one leg so you know which is which while probing with a meter? There are three contact points and two are conected with two

220 coils. I should just jump it and be hopefully done with it only on high heat , but how can one tell *hot*. I tryed ohming unpluged and got confused. I had the problem before and by yourself it hard to have a jumper all the way to the panel to make sure, but somehow I forgot how to tell hot. You know , so I can trace which of each legs is suppose to go which way within the machine. The selection switch show all hot which can't be right in different selections.

LOL. Bring 'em over next time you are visiting, and I'll do my best.

BTW tell Vincent that the paint job on his porch really make the house look classy. He spent a lot of time on it.

Jim

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I believe you're right. I grew up on a farm, and what we couldn't fix stayed broke, because we didn't have the money to hire someone else to fix it, nor during the planting and harvest seasons did we have the time to carry something to town to be repaired. It needed to be fixed in the field, and fixed *now*. That was reality as we knew it. So by necessity we had to learn to fix most everything ourselves.

But fewer than 10% of us live on farms today, farms are much larger businesses, equipment is more complex, and often heavily based on electronic controls requiring special diagnostic equipment to troubleshoot. When something breaks, you call the factory trained tech with the service truck out to the field to fix it. Time is money, the factory trained mechanic is more likely to get the machinery going quickly than you are, and he has the parts it will take right on his truck.

So today's farmer is less likely to be Mr Fix-it than his father or grandfather was. The same is true in other fields. Even auto mechanics have to bring their own cars into the dealership to get access to the specialized equipment needed to service a modern vehicle's complex systems.

On the consumer goods front, especially consumer electronics, it is almost always cheaper and faster to replace rather than repair. Even if you have the skills and test equipment, access to the special parts used is limited. Many consumer electronic devices use proprietary or house marked parts, or the parts are one time programable, and the manufacturers are often reluctant to sell you replacement parts. At best they want to sell you whole assemblies rather than individual parts.

Even in commerical enterprises, such as broadcasting where we have traditionally done component level troubleshooting and repair, the trend is to just do board swaps. That isn't because the techs are stupider than in years past. It is because the circuits aren't nearly as serviceable as they used to be. We run into things like flexible multilayer mylar circuit boards, proprietary parts, no service data, etc, etc, etc. It is often cheaper to simply swap in a new board than it is to try to repair the old one at the component level.

I could go on and on, but the point is, there's less incentive for the individual to do his own repair work in many areas than in years past, even if he is skilled in the necessary arts, so there is less reason for him to acquire the skills in the first place.

That's not to say there still isn't a lot the home handyman can do. Places like Home Depot and Lowes make their living off the home handyman. But people are much more selective in what they're willing to tackle than in days past. Part of that is economic. As we've become more affluent, we've become more likely to pay someone else to do nasty jobs rather than attempt to do them ourselves.

Example, I don't change the oil in my cars anymore, though I certainly could. The quick lube place on the corner will do it for only a few dollars more than the retail cost of oil and filters, and they'll wash and vacuum out the car while they're doing it.

OTOH, I did just change the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, hoses and fanbelt on my truck. The dealership wanted $416, the parts cost $63. You do the math. That was a job worth my time.

Gary

Harold, the libraries are still there, and the local bookstore still has an entire technical section - no more of the old style pop mechanics magazines, but the stuff is still there. Anyone who wants this will not be denied, even if they are not actively educated in it.

Hee hee. I love it when they try to push those. I reply "what, this is going to *break*?! I'm not gonna buy it if it's gonna break, do these things break a lot?"

It's fun to watch the backpedalling.

Agree. Even knowing that it's not magic, that it does not require special skills makes fixing stuff easier. Knowing that hard work and general thoughtfulness, and time, can substitute in for experience is an eye-opener.

I myself was 'pushed' to go to college. My dad was the first member of his family to do that, he even went on to get a PhD and so he's been real strong on education. The flip side on that was he paid for the whole thing (except for the summer jobs I had) and I have to say that was the best gift he ever could give. This is why I was working two jobs for a while, to sock some away for my daughter. The degree as such does not grant magic powers but it sure helps. More importantly it put me into contact with other technical experience (summer jobs at the university in the electronics shop) that made me a strong candidate for my first full time job. My former boss told me that I was a 'fair' choice for the position - until he talked to the shop foreman where I had worked summers. Then it was a lock. Point is, either one - the degree, or the experience - would not have been enough. But I had both.

This is great. I think that any time a kid, male or female, can learn new skills, and have a success story to feel good about inside, is the best. Like you said, with so much to do, why should they bother to waste time on drugs?

Jim

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Hot wires are any color except white or green. White is neutral, not used in 220 equipment. Green is always safety ground.

Gary