Thread wear advise

Definition of "organic" in the OED (Oxford English Dictionary) says (in part):

"4: b: Chem. Applied to a class of compound substances which naturally exist as constituents of organized bodies (animals or plants), or are formed from compounds which so exist, as in _organic acid, base, compound, molecule, radical_; all these contain or are derived from hydrocarbon radicals, hence _Organic Chemistry_, that branch of chemistry which deals with organic substances, is the chemistry of hydrocarbons and their derivatives."

This seems to be the definition which applies to our question.

Note that it is *hydrocarbon* not just carbon. (I guess that you could claim a chuck of charcoal to have been *derived* from a hydrocarbon -- but I don't think that you could get the peculiar crystalline structure of graphite from that.

So -- I stand by my opinion.

Enjoy, DoN.

Good call. :^)

Then diamonds are not organic - in the unburned form, anyway....

Jim

I use Crisco and like it. It is Veges based oil not lard. Read the label.

Mart> >

Ok - what else does it contain then - granted it has carbon.

Martin :-)

I think you guys are missing the point. Organic refers to compounds. Carbon in any of its 3 forms is an element, not a compound. The hydro in hydrocarbons refers to hydrogen, so a hydrcarbon has to include hydrogen and carbon. That doesn't mean that because it contains hydrogen and carbon that it is organic.

By the way, KCN is potassium cyanide and as you can see it contains no hydrogen so it is not a hydrocarbon, neither is it organic. So to be organic it must contain carbon and hydrogen but it also has to be produced by living things. Not all hydrocarbons are organic but they are all included in organic chemistry. Now that's a conundrum.

Jim

Now I have to pull on my chemist hat. Been a while since I took organic chemistry but here goes.

The definition of "Organic Chemical" is a bit fuzzy. Historically it comes from a time before chemical synthesis was very sophisticated (early 19th century) and it was felt that chemicals associated with living things were some how different from nonliving materials. That has long been proven false but the name has stuck (sort of like Native Americans being called Indians. It's been 500 years since the Europeans figured out that Columbus didn't actually get to India.) Heck, in the next few years biochemists will be producing totally new forms of self replicating systems (often called life) that have never been seen before (they've already produced working versions of existing viruses but it's a little difficult to decide if viruses are actually living or not).

These days Organic chemicals are compounds containing carbon, hydrogen, and a myriad of other elements, most often oxygen and nitrogen, but even weird stuff like selenium and tin show up occasionally. This means that methane, natural gas, and most petroleum products, like Bunker C crude oil, qualify as organic chemicals despite the fact many of them have likely never been near a living creature. On the other hand pure carbon phases like graphite, diamonds, and buckyballs are considered inorganic since they don't contain bonded hydrogen (they will absorb hydrogen, but that's a different process).

The practical difference is that Organic chemists tend to work for drug firms on structurally complex multielemental moieties that have biological effects (like anti-cancer agents and fabric dyes), where as Inorganic chemists work for engineering firms on simpler, perhaps repeating (like polymers) entities that have more mundane effects (like Kevlar or concrete).

As long as I'm on this soap box, I'll bring up one of my pet peeves, the "organic" vitamin scam. "Organic" vitamin C, for example, is chemically identical to synthetic vitamin C (ascorbic acid), and the FDA rules guarantee that there isn't anything else in the "organic" version except ascorbic acid. Save your money and spend it on something worthwhile like locally made craft brewed beer :-)

Jim

What about "organic vegies" I have yet to see an inorganic plant! Pat

I have. Bolt Supply House

has a good assortment of all thread. I have bought 1/4-20 in Grades 5 and 8 and stainless there.

I would certainly want to lube the working area. Never-Seez is good but you might prefer a teflon based lube (Tri-flow is one) to reduce the risk of getting stains on your drum heads.

Ted

Organic meat? I *think* I might have seen an inorganic cow at one time but it was nighttime and pretty foggy. Besides I had my eyes closed, too.

Jim

Inorganic animals:-

:-)

Mark Rand RTFM

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I agree -- but I was making a point based on the quoted definition from the OED for the previous claim (*not* mine) that graphite would qualify. Note that the remainder of the quoted definition says ""or are derived from hydrocarbon radicals", and if someone were pushing the point, they could claim at least that charcoal was so derived (by destructive distillation), but *I* would not have called it organic, nor, do I believe, would the compilers of the OED.

Fully agreed.

Enjoy, DoN.

Yeah, I saw that one just after failing the "test your breath machine" for the third time that evening. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

so that's what happened to the front bumper! Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Lubrication is sure to solve the problem but in the your situation you don't want to spread any oil around on the drums, either the skins or the shells especially if they are wood. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ How about saddle soap--that ought to act as a lubricant, and surely wouldn't harm the leather. If there is a finish on the wood, it probably would wipe right off of it.

One day two friends showed up on their motorcycles. One wanted to go to a certain health food store some distance away and they wanted to know if I wished to come. Since it was a glorious day for a ride, I went along. While they were doing whatever it was they came for, I was browsing the signs in the store. e.g.

"Since our vitamin B complex is prepared entirely from natural products, not only does it contian more of the known B vitamins, it also contains more of the unknown ones."

Sheesh!

Ted