Traveling Irrigator drive motor

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:52:49 GMT, "Karl Townsend"


Why do you think so? One way or another, the motor speed must be matched to the load speed regardless of who sold the gears. Some gear trains are more efficient than others, though. For high reductions, worm gears tend to be more efficient than trains of spur gears because it takes fewer gears to achieve the same ratio.
I know that Lorenz Mfg. in Benson uses some Boston worm gear drives, don't know if they'd sell ya one or not. They make electric winches among other things. Also farm machinery.

Might be helpful to know the ratio (if any) between PTO/handcrank and hose reel, or (perhaps better) what rev rate of PTO/crank results in hose retreival of 50 ft/hr.
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On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:52:51 GMT, "Karl Townsend"

What is your flow rate in gallons per minute, Karl?
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150 GPM at 120 PSI - well head. Only losing 5 PSI to line riser. That dang turbine was/is taking 15 PSI. These numbers go up/down 10 psi depending on elevation, takes 1 psi for every two feet.
I have all the part numbers lined up for this pump failing. Its getting worn out. The next pump will do 200 GPM at 120 PSI. If you'd care to donate $9K to the apple farmer's relief fund, I'll install it next week.
Karl
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On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:28:46 GMT, "Karl Townsend"

I probably won't be donating to a relief fund for apple farmers who have more and better machine tools than I do and spend their winters fishin' in Florida. Sorry 'bout that. <G>
I was curious about flow rate as it relates to power and pressure drop. Your flow rate and pressure drop seem consistent with the power it sounds like it takes to move the thing around. The 709 watts I calculated previously (based on your torque and speed data) is consistent with 15 PSI drop and 108 GPM at 100% efficiency.
Oh, and don't forget the undertooled-engineer's relief fund. All donations welcome.
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I doubt it. It still takes a lot of power to pull in the hose- have you ever cranked one by hand? I have.We sell lots of travelers and I've never heard of a turbine bearing failure (We used to sell Kifco and switched to Micro Rain a year ago). FWIW- your 15 psi pressure drop is caused not only by the turbine, but also the drag in the rest of the water circuit ( there is a lot of loss in all that hose) and attempting to go above a water velocity of about 5 fps by boosting pressure ( you can't boost flow) only makes things worse by introducing turbulence in the system.
Why not rebuild the turbine and be done with it? It'll be super reliable and run more than 120 hours a week no worries.
-Carl
--
The future isn't what it used to be.



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The turbine was stalling easily and I felt a tight spots like pits in the bearings. Ordered a pile of repair parts and took it apart. THEN I found out only one of the two bearings was in the replacement part pile. Bad bearing seal has let water in and rusted it.
Couldn't leave machine down, so I put it back in service without the turbine.

Kifco recommends an inlet pressure of 127 PSI for my unit. I only get 100 with turbine in place retrieving hose (108 disengaged). Remove turbine and I get 115. Unit runs WAY better. AMAZING. I can't go higher pressure on my plastic underground supply lines. Thus, my query on another way to retrieve hose.
Karl (spells his name right) Townsend
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Sounds like you need a booster pump- you're way low on pressure. Most of the water reels we sell are spec'd with a booster that mounts on the machine and has automatic controls to shut it off at the end of a run or if the water supply runs dry. Micro Rain has a stand alone pump available, don't know about Kifco. Since you would be boosting pressure after the supply lines, there is no risk of damaging them.

No he doesn't.
-Carl
--
The future isn't what it used to be.



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Yea, I've been told this before. I'm sure it would work, but I HATE small gas engines. You're just buying more problems. They are simply not made to run 24x7. Now, its working very well to just move the traveler a bunch once every five hours. Not as uniform, but I get a decent bit of sleep/work between moves. If this turbine gives more trouble after I get the parts re-installed, its coming off for good. I am sick of checking it once an hour to make sure it hasn't stalled again.
Karl
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I am sick of checking it once an hour

FWIW, Karl, it would be a simple electronic project to build a "stall alarm" for the thing, so you don't waste sleep unless it actually stalls.
Basically: A re-triggerable timer (like a 555) with a timeout period longer than the longest time between "spokes" on your windup reel (a spoke could be any protruberance, magnet, trip lever, etc. that can close a "retrigger" switch ... I'd use a magnetic switch, were I doing it).
IF the timer ever completely times out, it fires off an audible alarm or a flashing light that says, "Come start me up!".
You could put a strobe light up on a pole, so it will be easier to see (or detect) from a high place outside the orchard.
<G> Then, of course, you build a circuit in your house/bunkhouse that can detect the specific pulse rate of your strobe, and signal you to wake up! <G>
THEN, of course, you add a "restart motor" to the thing so if it stalls, it automatically re-cranks the turbine to get things going again.
Then you never have to get up at night again! <G<BSEG>G>
(Ain't Rube Great?)
LLoyd
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The answer is: Honda. We have yet to replace a Honda small engine and the only repair work has been to one that was vandalized.
-Carl
--
The future isn't what it used to be.



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I would agree Micro Rain has a better reel gun than Kifco. I will say there are better ways to irrigate than with a reel gun. My experience is you are loosing 50 to 65 percent of your water to evaporation depending on temperature, humidity and wind. If you are going to irrigate every year I would suggest underground irrigation. Your efficiency will go way up. It will require less water, less pressure, less horsepower,less money and less manpower. Pumps will cost less and electricity costs will down and instead of moving the reel gun you will just flip a switch or just put it on a timer. I have worked on thousands of acres of Pecans Orchards in Texas I have seen what works and what does not. I would bury pipe and keep emitters near the tree, anything above ground is a target for squirrels, rats, mice or any other varmits, farm equipment and stupid employees. Most of the initial cost of this type of irrigation are labor and markup. It is very labor intensive to install, BUT after the install it is the least labor intensive. You can water the whole orchard at one time instead of waiting for the reel gun to get there. Or zone it depending on how much water you want to lay down at a time. Just a suggestion from a Water Well Man.
Scott in Texas
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I would agree with everything you say but temper that with Karl's northern location. We've found that an improper end-of-season blowout can lead to all sorts of expen$ive damage. South of the Smith & Wesson line, drip is the only way to go, but north it's a toss up.
-Carl (not Karl)
--
The future isn't what it used to be.



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I tried drip for ten years. It was HORRIBLE. I have a very high iron content. There's an iron bacteria that forms a soft flake that plugs emitters. There was a bit over ten miles of pipe and 10,000 emitters. Something was always broke/plugged.Went through all kinds of emitters, filters, acid injectors, pipe styles. I was losing a lot of yeild potential to these problems. I gave up and put in a large well and traveling gun. On the whole, a much better way to go for my situation. It does suck in a year where water is needed all summer. This is the second time, the last was 1988. I had drip then - it sucked more than this.
Karl
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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:33:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl

Ditto the iron bacteria here in GP. I can run a fresh cup of water and it turns from perfectly clear into rusty brown in about half an hour. Strange.
I wondered why all of my emitters were plugging up and now you've enlightened me. I only have 1/3 acre, so my number is about 100. I moved to the flag style of emitters from Toro. They're self-cleaning. Twist the top every month or two and they flush themselves. I do it occasionally, every tenth check of the garden or so.
Hmm, iron bacteria. Is that on topic? ;)
-- Love the moment, and energy of that moment will spread beyond all boundaries. -- Corita Kent
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Not iron bacteria. Clear Water (dissolved) Iron - a different problem. There are a variety of water-softener-like systems to remove that - small amounts can be removed with a normal water softener. Greater amounts will plug one up. Large amounts can be removed by aerating (or chlorinating, which also works for the bacteria, but in the case of CWI is serving to oxidize) and settling/filtering.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:39:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,

I'd rather drink my clean (and clean-tasting) ruddy water than chlorinate it and end up with that shit they get in the city which reeks of fish shit and chlorine. Egad!
- Metaphors Be With You -
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They are certainly better, but not quite there yet. I know of a number of people that ran these hard (on generators) after the 'canes in '05. Most were dead in a month. Just what I heard from friends and relatives.
Karl
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wrote: I am sick of checking it once an hour

Perhaps this is simply avoiding the problem rather than fixing it, but maybe you could rig up a simple sensor and small motor that would detect if the turbine has stalled and give it a "push" to get it going again.
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Karl, You may wish to investigate a ring motor for your application. This could reduce your gear train to one step, possibly none depending on drive wheel size.
Such as:
http://www.alxion.com/bin/e_moteur-kit-stk.html
The 800 series offers as low as 30 RPM and 610 Nm of torque in ambient cooling application.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
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