used mill

On 11 Nov 2006 00:32:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "gcc" quickly quoth:

They're hard to find at that price and usually show up within a week of your actually purchasing something else for more money. Murphy takes care of that end of things for us. ;)

Keep your eyes open, talk to local machine shops, talk to local high school and college shop teachers (if any), post WANTED notes on bulletin boards at the local laundromats and grocery stores, keep an eye on the local newspaper (and Nickel/Pennysaver) for listings, etc.

Just keep your eyes open, 'cuz they're out there.

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You can do almost anything on a Horizontal mill, that you can do on a vertical. You just have to turn your frame of refernce 90 degrees when using end mills. Shrug

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

While I agree in principal, it can be, and often is, more involved than that. Your junk can be the other guy's treasure, depending on the expectations and requirements of the beholder.

Machine tools are expensive because you pay for precision. When the precision is gone, so is the value of the piece of equipment, at least to the owner. It's not uncommon for a well running machine to not be able to provide the level of precision required for the application. Once you start fighting a machine in that regard, its productivity level can drop to unprofitable levels.

Want a good example of this? How about a rusted and *restored* machine? (Read that as the rust has been wire brushed and the machine painted). As long as a machine can make chips, some guys don't give a damn if it's deadly accurate, or not, but the original precision is gone, likely never to return. Could be their objective is to turn manhole covers, with a tolerance of, say, +/- 1/8". The product doesn't have to be particularly round, straight or pretty. A restored rusted machine, or a well seasoned (worn) machine will do, but for the guy trying to consistently hold a few tenths, it's highly unlikely to be able to serve.

Harold

Hmm... I think I need to be looking around at those, then... what exactly did you mean by "give away" lol?

If your main interest is in making gears, you should be looking at horiz mills. They are *far* better for this job than a vertical mill. In fact I keep a small horiz mill just for this purpose, I wouldn't even consider using my B/port for it. Not that I couldn't, just that it isn't the best choice for the job.

Best of all worlds is a good rigid horiz mill with a retrofitted vertical milling head, with quill. Ideally with a universal table so you can do spiral milling.

PDW

Because it's obsolete and you're short of space/money. Duh.

We look like selling off a mint lathe soon because we need the room for the new CNC one. This is a Govt toolroom, none of the machines have ever been flogged. 2 Deckels, a Hardinge.....

Last place I was at, we sold off a horiz mill that was bought in the

60's and used maybe 3 times a year.

PDW

Harold, I agree with everything that you said, yes, condition of a used machine would be a relative concept depending on desired precision. I want to clarify myself by saying that used machines from liquidations (not govt surplus) usually run and perform their function, though not always as well as on their first day.

i

$100 or swap for something. Ive got a shop who may buy it for $500..but would rather a hobby shop get it.

Look on Ebay for the little Burkes and Vernons and other small horizontal millers. They tend to go for little money. Same with machine tool dealers. Little millers are not much in demand, least of all horizontals. They are primarily only used for slotting or squaring fasteners these days..not a lot of call for em.

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

Harold while what you say is true I've personally seen some people take a clapped out POS. and make precision work and wanabe machinists buy the biggest and newest and latest equipment and still do not know thier keister from a hole in the ground I myself have learned a lot working from the ground up and there is really no part that I can not make for any of my machines. I have a great respect for the old timer machinist..they were the greatest of improvisors. and they used "OLD" manual machines and what they built is still floating around to be resold over and over. batw

Gunner I would like to disagree with you respectfully, small used mills lathes and shaper are in much bigger demand than bigger ones case in point pound for pound a small shaper will go for 100.00 to 750.00 try and give away an 8,000 lb behemoth same for large mill and lathes there is always room for jello......errrr small equipment [G] batw

According to gcc :

Well ... a horizontal mill, with the right cutter sets, and with an index head is just what you need to *make* gears from scratch.

And it can make more serious cuts with the right milling cutters and arbors.

And -- it can do things similar to a vertical -- except that you are working on the face towards the column instead of the top (which has the advantage that chips pour out of pockets which you are machining, instead of staying there to be constantly stirred and re-cut unless you set up a shop vac to suck them out as you cut.)

As for what a Nichols horizontal mill looks like, I set up a web page documenting upgrading my very old one to a somewhat more modern version.

Check out:

which includes a PDF file of the manual of a more recent version.

Note that it weighs about 1100 pounds, and you will need three phase to run it -- as it uses a rather specialized motor which will be difficult to substitute for. I'm using a VFD to drive mine, but a home-built rotary converter would do as well.

If you get a right-angle head for it (also documented), you can do most of what a vertical mill can do as well.

Most horizontal mills lack the ability to move the spindle up and down with a lever which the Nichols has. Nice for things like milling a Woodruff key slot, or drilling with the right angle head.

The best version (in my mind) is their toolroom mill, which has a choice between lever feed (nice when cutting gears and such), or a leadscrew for X-Y positioning when using it with the right-angle head as a vertical mill.

Good Luck, DoN.

True enough. However..there is a rather Large difference between a K&T #2 and a Burke. I consider a #2 a smallish mill. But then..I work on Vipers and other mills you can profile a complete Ford F-150 and have room for a VW bug .

But Im in machine tool dealers on a regular basis..and the average small horizontal miller, Burke, Vernon, Diamond, Nichols, goes for about $500 in decent condition. The very small Barkers may go for twice that. There is a midrange between table top (Barkers) and the #2 sizes..that isnt really popular in commercial machine shops. They can get a better return on the square footage with a bigger CNC than an old small manual.

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

That reminds me of the shipping cost of my TOS lathe which I imported from the Czech Republic a number of years ago.

It cost me more to have it moved from the Oakland harbor terminal to my shop, than it cost me to have it shipped from the Czech Republic to Oakland. A lot more!

Ok, so if I decide to get a horizontal mill- which sounds like the better option at this point- what will the difference be in tooling costs? For that matter, what kinds of tooling will I need for gearmaking and some general purpose facing/plunging/slot-cutting operations? I'm willing to learn, I just usually need to hold things in my hands before I get them all the way through, and with this that doesn't look like it's going to be an option. So- long story short, what do I need to know before going out and buying a horizontal mill? And Gunner, if the offer is still open, I'd really like to discuss the possibility of buying that mill off of you. Thank you all again, GCC

Which reminds me..I know of a very nice Vernon..about a #1 1/2 size that if its still there in Costa Mesa..I can probably get for $500

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

On 13 Nov 2006 01:00:20 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Brent" quickly quoth:

"Best bet's about a buck a lb." he alliterated.

-- Chipmunks roasting on an open fire...

Hey, there's a HF mill/drill on ebay for about 160 now... its the

42976... should I jump on it? I'm worried about the round column and small spindle, though- looks like a drill press, not exactly confidence inspiring...

That's a smaller unit than the typical round-column mill-drill. I have the bigger "normal"-size MD and you can do good work on them. I'd probably pass on this one. I'd rather have a mini-mill. This is slightly bigger but less precise.