Was Shop heat---update

If you have Onix (Black) Hose you are fine. Never been a problem with it. same goes for Entran 3 (color orange) . The problem is that goodyear did not use EPDM for the E2 (entran 2) hose but SBR which just can't hold up to hot water. , the bad Hose was orange. but turned dark red as it bcame brittle. It got so brittle it would crack plus it had no Oxygen barrier which means the Boiler would rust out from the inside. As far as I know there are no 'problem' radiant products on the market now. The trace wire that was used in the early hose's did not work out well in the real world due to rebar, wire mesh and buried electrical wires causing false readings on the detector sets.

FYI plastic radiant tubes called 'PEX' are fantastic when it comes to durability and ability to withstand slab cracking . As long as the crack happens over time the PEX just expands. During the San Franscisco earthquake to 1990? the slab cracking happened too fast for the PEX to expand so much of it failed but the Heatway hose's did fine. PEX is destroyed by direct sunlight !

Hose type radiant systems are great for commercial jobs where there are lots of tradesman walking on the tubes. it is also kink proof which is good for 'rookie' installers but by far its best use is staple-up underfloor retrofit's under title, wood or carpet floors. it does not expand and contract like PEX.

Wayne,

I'm in Southern Vermont, a place called Sandgate. I want to buy Blacksmithing coal in bulk for resale and saw pricing and info on coal boilers during a gooooogle. I realize you need anthracite for heating but that's no problem. You can get auto-stoker boilers that only need feeding every 2-3 days, and they have enough capacity to offset the heat load in the house as well. Anything I can do to reduce our oil usage is a good thing. (1800 gal last yr) I looked @ wood boilers but I'm not interested in feeding it every day or doing the chopping ect., there's no economy in it if you by the wood. I am also looking at solar panels for the shop but that wont help with the house.

Andrew

Thanks for the input. I'm also in Southern Vermont ...maybe I can take a look at your shop, nothing like seeing the real thing. If that's a possibility drop me an e-mail(remove to obvious).

Thanks

Andrew

Thanks for the reply

I'll take a look at that link, let me know if you get around to the photos.

Harold,

Thanks for the replies and the suggestions. I'm thankful to the group for all the info its defiantly going to help me reduce the number of "DUH, why didn't I think of that before I poured 80 yards of concrete" moments.

Andrew

Great Idea

I already spoke to the people at

about a crane "kit" all the parts but the steel and varying degrees of assembly required.

Andrew

Jim,

I'll check out that link and pictures would be great if you have the time.

Thanks

Much thanks to all that replied. I've been very busy and I just got around to reading all the posts.

Thanks again

Vinny,

I ck'ed out your site and I'll keep you in mind as my plans firm up.

Thanks for the input

Andrew

I'm looking at a boiler like this

there is a company over in NY that has rebuilt units. I'll be going to see one next week just to get a feel for it. I won't need to heat the shop till next winter but I want to have the plan set so I'm not scratching my head at the last minute.

Andrew

Anything in

Yep, that's it! I've been quite impressed with it, in fact. One concern I've had right along was how it might react if oil got to it through cracks in the floor, so I soaked a piece in oil for a while----didn't seem to be a serious problem, and I can't imagine my floor ever getting that wet with oil----I keep a dry (*very* dry) floor, with Oil-Dri generously spread anywhere it's needed.

When I bought the hose, I was somewhat disappointed that the new hose didn't state you could drive your cement truck over it while making the pour, although that was never in the plan. I was just impressed that it was so forgiving. Hearing what you have to say certainly makes my day. I dodged a bullet, and only by shear luck. It did get walked on by the laborers pouring the 'crete---there's on way you can avoid that when you're wrestling with a boom dumping mud. I poured with the system under 60 pounds pressure and had no problems. The hose was well tied at decent intervals, and on the bottom side of the rebar, not on top. I saw to that.

I investigated a couple systems before landing on Heatway, and PEX tubing was included. I had a sample of the material, but couldn't come to terms with the potential for expansion and misalignment, not knowing much about it. I had a gut feeling that rubber hose would be more forgiving.

During the San Franscisco

We endured the 6.8 Nisqually quake (NW Washington) of three years ago with not so much as a crack in the floor or any of the walls, and we're only 40 miles from the epicenter. The shop was doing some pretty fancy dancing. From all indications, the amount of rebar I used, and the prep before pouring the floor, provided an assembly that is relatively stable and would have likely done just fine with the PEX.

At this point I have no regrets, so I'm installing the same material in the house. Being a machinist/toolmaker by trade (retired), I made my own manifolds and control panel, which I will also do for the house. It turned out quite nicely and looks professionally done, not some kludged up mess. I have no idea how the PEX is coupled, but the clamps and barb fitting used by Heatway(Watts) makes it pretty easy. I have found no leaks in the roughly 5 years the system has been in use.

The staple up feature is what I'm counting on for the house, except for the basement and garage, which each have the hose in the 'crete, which is only

4" thick. I won't be able to do any floor anchoring, but I didn't plan to, anyway. Basement is strictly for storage and mechanical, with not so much as one window.

I appreciate the fact that the rubber hose doesn't expand the way plastics do, and is yet another reason I made a good decision.

Thanks for the great information.

Harold

-- vladik