I am making a big prop for halloween which I want to have a frame made of 1-1/2" square tubing with 1/8" walls. I obtained the tubing and cut the correct lengths on my grinding wheel chop saw, debured the ends and sanded the metal clean where I wanted to weld. I used the only welder I have, a 230 amp (max) AC stick welder. I have now learned I can't weld.
So...I want to take these parts somewhere and get them welded. I have them all labeled, cut to length, sanded, and with diagrams showing how they fit together. I estimate about 20 welds, all 90 degree joints.
What am I looking at cost wise to have this assembly welded up? Will shops take metal that you have prepped and weld it or do they want to use their own metal? I live just outside the Seattle area.
Just out of curiosity, how is it that you have a welder, but don't know how to use it? Halloween is still five months away: plenty of time for you to learn how to stick weld. Why not take a class, find someone to teach you, or simply buy a book and video and practice on your own?
amp (max) AC stick welder. I have now learned I can't weld.
That is just it, I don't have time to learn. This is going to be one of the coolest halloween props I have ever made (I want to keep it secret right now) and it is going to take a lot of my time doing machining on my mill and a lot of electronic work.
As an example of a prop I made last year, look at this haunted ouija board that spells out messaged programmed into it's microcontroller. It was a huge hit at our party, and was just one of the many props I made. I spend half the year getting ready for halloween. :-)
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A pic of the internals:
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Oh and also last year I hooked up a CO2 laser to my cnc mill and made these:
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Time to learn how to weld? lol, maybe in November! :-p
Anyone who has the money, tools, and time to make those kinds of toys must have enough disposable income to buy a decent MIG welder. Get one and you'll be laying down very nice beads within a day.
You can get a very nice factory reconditioned Hobart 135 Amp MIG welder from Harbor Freight for just $380:
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This is a great deal and will easily pay for itself in short time.
I'm betting that you learn to weld within a half hour after you get the right (little) rod. I'm probably the least informed and poorest welder around. But, even *I* find square tube to be easy to weld. Right now, I have some 1/16 th 6013 stick from Harbor Freight. Weld that (1/16th 6013) with the welder set for about 60 amps, and you should get decent welds within a few passes.
If you are lucky (or persistant) you might get Ernie Leimkuhler to tell you some techniques to make your learning go quicker.
Now, Deep, don't be responsible for sending another innocent soul into addiction.
Having a welder is POWER! Knowing how to use it is ABSOLUTE POWER.
Your suggestion for the poster to buy a welding machine is spot on. Just realize that you may change this man's life.
Really, though. If you are into building things out of tubing, you can learn to MIG weld in about thirty minutes, and that is if you are a slow learner. You get charts on thicknesses that make it a no brainer. If you can find someone that knows how, you will be getting the hang of it before the end of the first beer.
Then, there is just no limit to what you can build, or the depths of addiction.
For those who have a DC welder, 6011 3/32" rod with electrode negative is a VERY good way to weld light tubing. Use a whipping action, and don't create too big a puddle. Run it as low as you can and still get good fusion.
I used to use these rods for in field "wrought iron" repair of light tubing. A little tricky, but not rocket surgery. Steve
"Jerry Martes" wrote: (clip) If you are lucky (or persistant) you might get Ernie Leimkuhler to tell you some techniques to make your learning go quicker. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ernie's name popped into my mind as soon as I saw where you are located. He would probably do the job for pay, or teach you what it would take to get started, or recommend one of his students to do the job. Ernie's reputation is "helpful."
Come and take my summer evening welding class at South Seattle Comm. Coll.and build your frame at school. I will be teaching Tuesday / Thursday evenings starting June 27th.
Actually I will be teaching Tuesday evening and Monday through Thursday mornings. Kathleen Odonnel will be teaching Thursday evening and Friday Morniong. Wacky schedule but it should be fun. She is a very experienced CWI fabricator who is a welding lead at Genie Industries.
If you really don't want to learn to weld then I am sure one of our students would be happy to weld it up for you.
Paying for itself wasn't on Rick's list, but limited time was. The recommended Hobart Handler would certainly do the job for Rick. He'll also need an autodarkening helmet, and a gas bottle and regulator if he wants to MIG pretty, but fluxcore would work fine too.
Rick, it really is easy with the job you've described. There'll be a chart of wire speed and volts setting, including settings for 1/8" steel. On a straightforward job like yours, those settings will work fine.
My daughter, who had never welded in her life, made an excellent weld in 1/8" steel on her second try with a machine very similar to the Hobart that Deep Diver mentioned -- a Lincoln 110-volt box. It was flat stock to flat stock so we could test the weld. I put the test coupon in the vise and invited her to have at it with a big hammer. She bent the metal about 45 degrees. I then further bent it clear over, folded nearly 180 degrees, with no weld failure.
It would take an evening or two with good instruction to learn to use your stick welder with 7014 or 6013 reasonably well, but you really can do this with wirefeed almost immediately -- and you'll probably save considerable time in the process. If you send it out you must:
- find someone who can and will do it
- deliver the materials
- describe what is wanted, including dimensioned drawings
- negotiate price and terms
- pick the job up when it is done
- figure out how to correct errors in welding, design or communications -- more trips.
Once you spend an hour or two reading the directions and making a few practice welds with a wirefeed welder, especially given the limited scope you've described, you'll be good to go. You won't be a "weldor" yet, but you'll be quite able to make stuff well out of the materials you describe.
If you can find an experienced coach to get you started, figure on reducing that time to 30 minutes or less. I'd bet a good dinner I'd have you making sound welds of good appearance in that time or less.
After that, you'll be able to deal with mods and additions (afterthoughts and eau chittes) easily and immediately.
If the toy budget allows, I'd recommend a 220-volt 170 amp (or so) machine by Lincoln, Miller or Hobart (same as Miller now) rather than the 110-volt boxes. They're not much larger but they're significantly more capable. The 110-volt boxes can do the job, but they can only handle limited duty cycle with 1/8" material; after welding for 90 seconds you must let it rest for the balance of 10 minutes. Not so with the 220 machines, and they can also weld thicker material well.
Wasn't long ago that you couldn't weld well, Gunner. Remember the errant wheel? Rick's "problem" appears to be time he's willing to invest in learning to weld well vs. doing something else.
Agreed, but time is money and (as you aptly pointed out) hiring the welding job out will cost Rick both. The reason why I mentioned the return on investment was because Rick's original post gave me the impression that cost was a factor in his quest to weld this project.
Impossible!!! Didn't you read in an earlier post: "MIG is only good for light work, tends to make a brittle weld that cracks."
I'd add HTP to that line-up. I bought a 170 Amp MIG welder from HTP over 15 years ago and it continues to serve me very well.
Having your own welding machine will cut time and cost DRASTICALLY.
You don't pay someone $50 an hour for work, then wait three weeks to hear it will be ready next week.
With a few basics (most of which can be bought used for a song), you can set up a decent operation and turn out high quality goods in a very short time.
You need a hand grinder, a drill, a cutoff saw, some clamps, some measuring devices, a square, a bevel square, and a few other things.
If a person is creative, there is no end to the things that can be built. If you are anal retentive, you can do things precisely. If you are just a get her done kind of person, many things can be built in place with a very high spread on the accuracy tolerances.
Steel prices have gone up lately. But still, you can go out and buy new tubing, and build something so cheaply that it defies having someone else do it. If you use used materials, or just collect pieces and parts, you can build sculptures, birdbaths, fountains, all kinds of artistic and functional things for around the house.
Which leads me to my next point. What will the SO have to say about all this capital outlay? Make sure some of the first things you make are the gazebo, park bench, security door, ornamental gate, etc, that she's been seeing on HGTV, and you will have a devoted follower. BE SURE to mention how this article "would" cost $300 normally, but you, and your creativity and testosterone, did it for $50. Now, she'll go out and spend the other $250 shopping, but there will be a lot more piece (sp?) in the house.
MIG welding is so easy that I think a monkey could do it. Hell, I see GenXers all the time that can do it, and they make monkeys look smart.
Just where outside of Seattle are you? I am over in the Kitsap county and between now and Halloween could help. Just not between now and late June. Your AC stick welder would probably do just fine with the right rod , but a MIG welder would be a better choice for if you had one.
Sheesh, with good fitup on 1/8" wall square tubing we can have you welding that up with your buzzbox in 60 minutes or less!! Get a NEW 5 pound box of name brand 6013 3/32" rod. Stop at the welding supplier and get a NEW #9 lens and NEW cover (clear protective) sheets so you can see what you are doing. Set the welder at 80 amps, keep the arc short, stick your nose about 12" away from the arc.
Ernie L. chimed > I am making a big prop for halloween which I want to have a frame made of 1-1/2"
The SO is not your typical SO. She is more into tools, woodworking and metalworking than I am! This project is at least half her idea.
I am intrigued by the idea of a mig welder being so easy, but I was under the impression that the welds were not really good. I read the story a few months back about Gunner's tire bouncing over some powerlines while 4 stoned teenagers asked if he could do it again...
Maybe I was using the wrong stick in my AC welder...I was using an 1/8"
6013 at 80, 100, and 120 amps. After chipping away the massive slag, the bead (if you can call it that) was only stuck to one side of the inside 90 degree joint of the tubing. That can't be good!
Money is an issue, only because the whole project takes a lot of money and this is one small (but important) part. I would have to *know* that mig would work before spending $500 on a rig.
I am out toward Monroe. I think I got my rotary converter motor from you a few years back, right?
Still using it..works great!
I need to get this welded up sooner than late June unfortunately, but I do appreciate the offer.
I may have a go again with the stick welder after purchasing some smaller rods....or maybe I can rent a MIG? at the local tool rental place and try it out...
MIG will absolutely do it. So will stick, with a bit more practice. You were running a bit cold with 1/8" 6013, even at 120 amps. Try
1/8" 7014 at about 125 amps, or the other poster's suggestion of
3/32" 6013. You might find 7014 easier because it's a "drag rod".
You'd find MIG or fluxcore wire much easier than either of these. Set it up according to the chart, do a couple of practice welds with those settings to learn how fast to go so you're getting good fusion, and you'll be getting good welds. Note that polarity with fluxcore is opposite that for MIG. Fluxcore would be a better choice for your job with a 110-volt box because it runs hotter than MIG. You could add gas later as you get more experience.
We have some errands to do, but I asked my wife, who has never welded anything, if she'd be up for an experiment later.
"What kind of experiment?", she said cautiously.
I described your situation, said I'd like to have her try MIG-welding some bits of steel together and report the results with photos.
'OH, YEAH!!!", she said" That sounds much neater than some of your stupid experiments!"
Stay tuned.
If you were to go to a good welding store with some bits of your steel and VISA card in hand, they would get you checked out and kitted up in a jiffy. Ernie can undoubtedly recommend a suitable store. It'll cost a bit more than Harbor Freight, but it may be the best Hallowe'en investment you ever made. Minnespolis Oxygen is such a store here, don't know about Seattle. I probably would say get the autodark helmet from HF, though, the one that Gunner recommends. The Jackson EQF is a very nice helmet, but it's pricey and more than you'll need for MIG or stick.
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