"Welding" Unknown Pot Metal

I've got a part I'd like to repair if for no other reason than to be able to do it. The value is much lower than my time. It?s a die cast mystery alu-zinc part. From what I have read the BlueDemon/AlumiWeld/MuggyWeld/DuraFix class of aluminum "brazing" rod is the way to go due to its low melting point. I've used Muggy Weld and Dura Fix rod to bond known "aluminum" in the past. Usually 6061 or 5052. It works, but you pretty much have to be able to lay down the entire repair at once and leave it to cool. I may not be able to that with this part, but that's not where I ran into a stop on this part.
The way most of these rods is used is to heat the metal until its hot enough to melt the rod. Push it around until it wets out where you need it and let it cool. On this project the base part started to melt before it got hot enough to start melting the rod. I wiped wth acetoe and brushed thoroughly first. Same way I would prep to mig weld aluminum. I told the person who asked me to repair it (my dad) and he said he expected that and not to worry about it. Still I'd like to find a way if at all possible. It bugs me. I read one website were a guy claims to be able to weld any kind of potmetal with TIG, but the only other references I found was the same guy spamming his services on various web forums.

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It's likely a zinc alloy with a melting point between 750 and 800F - possibly lower. If alloyed with tin - MUCH lower
Possibly very close to Pewter?

On 17/01/2019 19:59, Clare Snyder wrote:
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Pewter, actually Britannia metal these days, TIG welds very nicely. I've used it to repair small bits of porosity in castings. I have no idea whether any zinc would vapourise like when TIGing brass but likely worth a try.

On 1/17/2019 1:15 PM, David Billington wrote: > On 17/01/2019 19:59, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> wrote: >> >>> I've got a part I'd like to repair if for no other reason than to be able to >>> do it. The value is much lower than my time. >>> >>> It?s a die cast mystery alu-zinc part. From what I have read the >>> BlueDemon/AlumiWeld/MuggyWeld/DuraFix class of aluminum "brazing" rod is the >>> way to go due to its low melting point. I've used Muggy Weld and Dura Fix >>> rod to bond known "aluminum" in the past. Usually 6061 or 5052. It works, >>> but you pretty much have to be able to lay down the entire repair at once >>> and leave it to cool. I may not be able to that with this part, but that's >>> not where I ran into a stop on this part. >>> >>> The way most of these rods is used is to heat the metal until its hot enough >>> to melt the rod. Push it around until it wets out where you need it and let >>> it cool. On this project the base part started to melt before it got hot >>> enough to start melting the rod. I wiped wth acetoe and brushed thoroughly >>> first. Same way I would prep to mig weld aluminum. I told the person who >>> asked me to repair it (my dad) and he said he expected that and not to worry >>> about it. Still I'd like to find a way if at all possible. It bugs me. I >>> read one website were a guy claims to be able to weld any kind of potmetal >>> with TIG, but the only other references I found was the same guy spamming >>> his services on various web forums. >>> >> It's likely a zinc alloy with a melting point between 750 and 800F - >> possibly lower. If alloyed with tin - MUCH lower >> >> >> Possibly very close to Pewter? > > Pewter, actually Britannia metal these days, TIG welds very nicely. I've used it to repair small bits of porosity in castings. I have no idea whether any zinc would vapourise like when TIGing brass but likely worth a try. >
I'm going to keep the part on the projects shelves (yes plural) and when I finally pull the trigger on an AC/DC TIG machine I'll give it another go. Torch welding obviously did not work out on this part. Its one of those things I just want to find a way to do.

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Has anyone tried those sub-$600 models from Chaiwan yet? https://is.gd/5Sc9cM

On 1/19/2019 10:15 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:14:45
> wrote: > >> >> On 1/17/2019 1:15 PM, David Billington wrote: >>> On 17/01/2019 19:59, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've got a part I'd like to repair if for no other reason than to >> be able to >>>>> do it. The value is much lower than my time. >>>>> >>>>> It?s a die cast mystery alu-zinc part. From what I have read the >>>>> BlueDemon/AlumiWeld/MuggyWeld/DuraFix class of aluminum "brazing" >> rod is the >>>>> way to go due to its low melting point. I've used Muggy Weld and >> Dura Fix >>>>> rod to bond known "aluminum" in the past. Usually 6061 or 5052. >> It works, >>>>> but you pretty much have to be able to lay down the entire repair >> at once >>>>> and leave it to cool. I may not be able to that with this part, >> but that's >>>>> not where I ran into a stop on this part. >>>>> >>>>> The way most of these rods is used is to heat the metal until its >> hot enough >>>>> to melt the rod. Push it around until it wets out where you need >> it and let >>>>> it cool. On this project the base part started to melt before it >> got hot >>>>> enough to start melting the rod. I wiped wth acetoe and brushed >> thoroughly >>>>> first. Same way I would prep to mig weld aluminum. I told the >> person who >>>>> asked me to repair it (my dad) and he said he expected that and not >> to worry >>>>> about it. Still I'd like to find a way if at all possible. It >> bugs me. I >>>>> read one website were a guy claims to be able to weld any kind of >> potmetal >>>>> with TIG, but the only other references I found was the same guy >> spamming >>>>> his services on various web forums. >>>>> >>>> It's likely a zinc alloy with a melting point between 750 and 800F - >>>> possibly lower. If alloyed with tin - MUCH lower >>>> >>>> >>>> Possibly very close to Pewter? >>> >>> Pewter, actually Britannia metal these days, TIG welds very nicely. >> I've used it to repair small bits of porosity in castings. I have no >> idea whether any zinc would vapourise like when TIGing brass but likely >> worth a try. >>> >> >> >> I'm going to keep the part on the projects shelves (yes plural) and when >> I finally pull the trigger on an AC/DC TIG machine I'll give it another >> go. Torch welding obviously did not work out on this part. Its one of >> those things I just want to find a way to do. > > Has anyone tried those sub-$600 models from Chaiwan yet? > https://is.gd/5Sc9cM > > -- > "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined > and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross > the road." --Steven Hawking >
I think if I was going to go that way I'd try the one from Eastwood for a few dollars more. Atleast there you have a known company to deal with and if they don't make good on a bad unit it will get around and damage their reputation.
https://www.eastwood.com/tig200acdc.html?SRCCODE=PLA00010&msclkid É2234c6f1881bf66dd4688591ab8f49
I really want the little Lincoln Square AC/DC Pulse Tig Stick machine, but at $1600 I have to think long and hard about it.

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Wow, a 3 year warranty. Unheard of! Looks like a pretty good deal.
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Red and Blue are very, very proud of their machines, but they are good units.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
I've got a part I'd like to repair if for no other reason than to be able to do it. The value is much lower than my time.
It?s a die cast mystery alu-zinc part. From what I have read the BlueDemon/AlumiWeld/MuggyWeld/DuraFix class of aluminum "brazing" rod is the way to go due to its low melting point. I've used Muggy Weld and Dura Fix rod to bond known "aluminum" in the past. Usually 6061 or 5052. It works, but you pretty much have to be able to lay down the entire repair at once and leave it to cool. I may not be able to that with this part, but that's not where I ran into a stop on this part.
The way most of these rods is used is to heat the metal until its hot enough to melt the rod. Push it around until it wets out where you need it and let it cool. On this project the base part started to melt before it got hot enough to start melting the rod. I wiped wth acetoe and brushed thoroughly first. Same way I would prep to mig weld aluminum. I told the person who asked me to repair it (my dad) and he said he expected that and not to worry about it. Still I'd like to find a way if at all possible. It bugs me. I read one website were a guy claims to be able to weld any kind of potmetal with TIG, but the only other references I found was the same guy spamming his services on various web forums.
**********UPDATE*********
I took it over to a buddy of mine who does a bit of TIG welding and he gave it a go. He tried low current with AC TIG and the max set at 75 amps and used the foot pedal to start lower. The first thing I noticed watching was the arc was red. We double checked on a piece of known aluminum and got the expected blue white arc. The other thing is the arc danced wildly. Back to the aluminum and a normal looking arc. The other thing was it just didn't seem to puddle at all. When he walked the pedal a little bit higher it just blew out metal.
We still don't know what it is, but we turned on all the fans and exited his shop after that to let the smoke clear... and there was smoke.
Its going in the dumpster I think.

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http://jardenzinc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2016/07/Technical-Brief-Joining-Solid-Zinc-Strip.pdf

-----Original Message----- From: Gunner Asch Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:27 AM Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: "Welding" Unknown Pot Metal
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Sounds very much like a zinc die cast part. The red arc is a tell tale. If you have a very fine OA torch and some zinc wire..it can..can..depending on your skill level..weld it. But frankly...you would be better off filling in the break/voids etc with epoxy..and sand casting a new part.
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Interestingly you are the only one who commented on the red arc. Not even on the Miller Welds Forum. I specifically mentioned it because I thought it was a huge diagnostic datum.
I don't know how well I can weld with a torch, but I have 3 or 4 welding tips. Oddly enough I didn't learn my initial torch welding with a welding tip. The farm mechanic who taught me wouldn't let me use one. He said, "You always have a cutting tip. You may not always have a welding tip handy. Here is how you adjust a cutting tip to weld." Then we proceeded to blow holes in a muffler and then patch over them with a clothes hanger.

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I've never seen it because I know not to risk breathing zinc fumes.

"Red arc" - that's the spectral colours of zinc. I think of it as more like "lilac" colour. The quantum energy steps in zink's atomic structure cause it to throw out this lilac light. ie. the specific energy of the photons emitted is sensed by our eyes as the colour lilac. You see if if you try to weld heavily dip-galv'ed steel. The fume will cause "zink sweats" - which I have never had - and body can get rid of zink over time - so for a transient small exposure - not the greatest cause to dwell on in the general scheme of things.
If there were a "zink lamp", it would have this lilac colour.

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
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    If memory serves, that's one reason to drink whole milk after work.

On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 9:36:02 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
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"Zinc fume fever," which has symptoms similar to the flu, can be prevented with a fume mask. 3M makes a disposable one especially for dealing with it.
I had it once, o/a welding EMT tubing outdoors. It doesn't take much. I promptly bought a few of those 3M masks and never had it again.
That was around 20 years ago, so I'm not sure they still make them, but they probably do.
Oh yes -- drinking milk supposedly is a fairly effective treatment for it. I learned about that too late, and I haven't had a reason to try it.

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Supplied milk was used to mitigate toxic metals exposure in UK historically but in living memory of senior tradesmen here.

On Sat, 02 Feb 2019 18:37:17 -0800, pyotr filipivich
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Old timers used buttermilk, even heard a story of some welders refusing to weld galvanized with out their daily ration of buttermilk. Today it is very hard to find buttermilk that is not low fat. AFAIK the fat is what helps mitigate the fume fever not the milk. So 4% whole milk is the modern substitute.
A few years back had a nice little side job welding galvanized. Did it outdoors with a box fan suspended about two or three feet behind my head. No mask... Tried the whole milk a few times and skipped it others and could not tell a difference.

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Sounds like drinking heavy whipping cream might be even better (googlegooglegoogle at least 36% fat).

Hi Gunner
The "best" I met of welding on heavy hot-dip zink galv. which was infeasible to remove was welding in new deck-supporting truss structure on a seaside holiday-town pier.
Because it is * a truss with slender members not blocking or setting up eddies in the air * there is a constant onshore breeze this was the one-and-only occasion where you really could keep your head out of the zink-fume plume and it was OK.
Welding transversely across the truss members, you could look at the weld end-on and manipulate the rod to puddle-up a correct-shaped fillet despite the galv. kicking the arc around and the fume kicking the weld-pool around. And the arc was very lilac coloured indeed...!
Best wishes, Rich S

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How did you rust-proof your welds?

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Galv.-spray. Zink-rich paint. Only thing you can really do (?) Rich S