What are the size limitations of mini mills?

I'm in San Francisco. There are some listed in the fone book, but if you had suggestions or recommendations... I suppose they don't need to be local - just trusted.

Peter

Well, Gibson gave him his last guitar. His first guitar was a cheapy, I understand. It didn't seem to hinder his ultimate achievements, however. I'd love to become the Wes Montgomery of machining... or playing guitar, for that matter!

Peter

OK we just need some west coast folks to comment here, I'm in peekskill NY - all of my recommendations would be for the east coast.

Jim

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Gunner,

I have parts breakdown/schematics for what I believe is a Hardinge auto chucker. Has sections for console, hydraulic, programmer, drive headstock, carriage, vertical slide, etc. Seems to be everything but the cover and first couple pages. I have no use for it, maybe you do. Send your snail addy if you want.

michael

Agreed. Not everyone is capable, nor comfortable, with using and trusting screws, and they are, for sure, not as accurate. All the more reason why I'm so damned proud of the ability I acquired. We dinosaurs are like that.

Touché!

Yep, it's been a long time, since I last submitted tooling to Litton (back in '83), commonly held to a thou or less. Since then, however, my Bridgeport likely hasn't seen more than 200 hours of use. It's nice to own a vintage '75 mill that has so few hours on it. No holes in the table, screws still relatively good.

Love it!!

I think that if I found a deal on a mill drill, I'd buy it, too, but only for use as a heavy drill press. That might take a bit of the load off my mill, which I use for drilling routinely. I like the advantage of a permanently affixed vise and screws to locate holes. Again, that's how I was trained.

Speaking of deals, I always wanted to own a Sunnen hone. I was trained on a model 1290-D, so when I found one that I could purchase for less than $300, I did so. It's now something to behold, after a complete teardown and restoration. Some things seem to follow you home, no matter how much you resist!

Harold

Yep, that would be the accomplishment of the century. I love his style. Too bad his life was cut so short.

What's your style? Jim Hall? Gabor Szabo? Charlie Bird? Herb Ellis? Joe Pass? Chet Atkins? (I hate country, but loved his style).

Harold

"... I'm just trying to decide if I can get by with a mini mill or if I need to buy an RF-30 machine...."

No one seems to address the mini mill vs. the Drill mill (rf-30) question.

Never used a RF-30... impressive machine... too big for my shop. But the round column does not impress me.

The mini-mill (from sieg) does not have a quill. It has a rectangular cast iron column with dovetail ways for the mill head to slide upon. The head is raised or lowered as needed. This has the advantage of keeping horizontal alignment when replacing tools, chucks etc.

The working envelope is around 9 x 4 inches. All cast iron construction. The spindle speed is variable between 0 and 2500 rpm.

I like my mini-mill. Of course, my opinion is colored by someone who did his milling on a drill press before I got my mini! 8-)

Leo (pearland, tx)

Hell..you are only about 3 hours or so north of me. Im in the Bakersfield area.

Ive got a nice Index 40 Vertical mill up for sale. 110v, and a hell of a lot stouter than any mill drill. Good size for the home shop too.

Also got a small horizontal mill. (and lathes etc etc

The site is a bit out of date, and Ill be updating it in the coming weeks, but the Index is shown.

That would fit right into your average Uhaul trailer and go home with you quite nicely. Ive got tooling for it and it will be not much more than a imported mill drill.

Gunner

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." -- Senator John F. Kennedy, (D) 1960

I've had people say I sound like Gabor Szabo but I don't hear it. I play with a fairly bluesy approach, not unlike Kenny Burrell. Jim Hall has been my biggest influence. Scrapple From The Apple on "Jim Hall Live" still gives me goose bumps. That's perhaps the best guitar trio album ever recorded (I know Joe Pass fans will cringe when I say that). Needless to say, I don't have the ears or skill of any on your list.

I don't know if you're familiar with some recent guitarists... If not, and have an interest, you might like Peter Bernstein's stuff.

BTW, do you have any suggestions about bench sized used mills I would want to look for?

Regards,

Peter

I only mention this, because even though my hardinge horizontal mill *looks* so pristine (!) I would not want to put its lead screws to any real test against a length standard. They've seen so much use that I know they're worn over the long run. I would dearly love to purchase new lead screws from hardinge but that's gonna run into big big money.

Ah, we used to have a sunnen hone in the model shop at work. That was back in the days when space there was 'free' and one of the managers was into restoring old aircraft engines. I took a pair of bmw cylinders to work, and asked if I could use the sunnen.

The manager there replied that it was a bit tricky to use, but he would be glad to do them for me one lunch hour. "Just don't let it get around" he said. I had to sort of wander by around the time I though he would be doing them, and sure enough, he was doing the bores right there - and about five other guys from the shop were standing by, giving him comments and advice! So much for keeping it quiet.

Those sunnen hones do a lovely job. Aside from a tiny groove at the top, those jugs were straight and round to within tenths.

Jim

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There you go, Peter. Wasn't that easy?

Gary

All in good time! None of us start out at the top.

If your style resembles Gabor Szabo, even remotely, you'd be a pleasure!

I'm quite partial to Herb Ellis, especially when combined with Oscar Peterson and the late Ray Brown. I can really get off on his sound. Don't know what he does, but you can pick him out of any recording if he's there.

I'm not educated in music, thus I have a difficult time describing what I hear, so all I can do is make comparisons with those with which I'm familiar. Peter Bernstein's stuff is not anything to which I've been exposed, but we listen to two jazz stations here in Western Washington, so I'll pay particular attention to each of them to see if they play anything of his.

Susan and I listen to KPLU, which is found on the net. We also listen to KMHD, which comes to us out of Oregon. We have a large stereo antenna and get both of them quite well, in spite of the long distance, especially for KMHD. KMHD is slightly more progressive in their choices, so I expect it's only a matter of time until they play something of Bernstein's. . KPLU is rather rigid in their music selection. For example, they do not play any Chuck Mangione, nor do they ever play any of Herbie Mann's work. That's certainly unfortunate, for each of them did some remarkable work. Herbie Mann's Village Gate album has to be one of the better things ever put on disk.

We have drifted a bit, haven't we? I'm not well versed on the smaller machines, but one of them I mentioned earlier, the Gorton line. Their small machines are outstanding in quality as made, and would be an excellent choice. They made various models through the years, the Unimill, sldo one I believe was named an 0-16A, and perhaps many more. I don't really know, but I've run the two mentioned and would recommend them highly to anyone interested. They are not toys, were intended to do serious work with good results. The Unimill had a tilting head as I recall, but the 0-16A did not. That would be one negative, but otherwise it's an excellent choice. Nice thing about it is it's small, and would lend itself to your minimum space requirements and still do serious work.

I've read with considerable interest of those recommended by others. I think, unless you intend to buy new, that your best bet is to pursue anything that shows up until you find something worth having. Gary pointed out some very good things to watch for. . That way you won't limit yourself to a given machine, cutting down the odds of finding something that would make you happy. Use four things as guidelines and you won't be sorry with your choice, assuming it isn't junk.

1) A knee type mill 2) A "drop spindle" type of machine 3) Power feed on the quill so you can bore successfully 4) A tilting head type of machine, at least one direction, side to side, if not front to back, too. Not all mills have tilting heads, a Gorton 9-J, for example. There are others.

By having the four features mentioned above, you should be able to accomplish pretty much anything you'll encounter. I might add, if you can justify a larger machine, Bridgeport size, you'll not regret it, but I understand your space limitations. If nothing else, you need reasonable head room for those machines.

I have no quarrel with horizontal machines, but doing some things on them is far more difficult. The best scenario is that you end up with one of each type machine if you stay in the hobby.

Good luck!

Harold

You're right not to be impressed by the round column. You do lose your zero when you raise or lower the head. But that 2 hp head does have some grunt. It'll take cuts that would destroy the mini-mill. The work envelope is much larger too.

Since I got my big knee mill, my RF-30 is mostly used as a heavy drill press. But before that it was my main mill, and I cut a lot of metal with it. It is capable of good work, once you learn how to work around its ideosyncracies.

Gary

Berstein's playing isn't all that progressive. He sounds much like a modern Kenny Burrell and thought you might like him because he's got new school ears with old school sensibilities.

Our local station is KCSM and other than Clifford Brown Jr's announcing, is very good. You can pick it up on the net at

Thanks for your help.

Peter

Anyone need another Sunnen Hone? I have one.

Gunner

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." -- Senator John F. Kennedy, (D) 1960

While the 0-16A is smaller in height and slightly smaller in footprint than a BP...it is one heavy heavy old bitch. But yes...thats one hell of a smaller mill. But its not a benchtop....lol..not at 1900 lbs. Maximum tool diameter is 1/2", with the collets being a bit dear and rather rare. If you find one..be sure the collets are there, at least the common sizes, such as 1/4, 3/8/ 1/2".

Fortunately mine came with a complete set.

Gunner

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." -- Senator John F. Kennedy, (D) 1960

You're right, they were made in UK and, presumably because they are relatively small (compared with a Bridgeport) , were not very popular in the States. But they are available from time to time. If you can get one, snap it up - you will never regret it.

-- Regards, Gary Wooding

(Change feet to foot to reply)

I guess I will add my 2 cents worth.

My EMCO 7 inch lathe with milling column has a round column and it does not loose zero when raised/lowered. It has a large full length key attached the column and adjustable gibs in the head. To rotate the head, the round column is released at the base and the column and head all are rotated.

However, my Grizzly mill/drill with a round column certainly looses zero when raised/lowered. The geared key on the column is attached to the column only at the top and bottom by the wedge shaped ends of the key. When the head of this machine is rotated, the key also moves slides around the column.

Potentially, the entire Grizzly column and head could be turned like the EMCO. I have not tried it. Some while back(years?) there was an article in a home machinist magazine about screwing the geared key to the column to minimize the loss of zero when moving thead. I don't think this would help much bacause there are no gibbs to take up the remaining slop.

By the way, the problem of spotting drill lenght vs. jobber length drills was solved when I got several 4-6 inch spotting drills at an estate sale.

Paul in Redmond, Oregon