Ball joints

Not exactly model engineering but someone might be able to help.
I needed to separate a ball joint on my VW passat (as a precursor to
replacing the front wheel bearing). Standard ball joint separator tools don't fit (it's a large ball joint and VW make a tool 3287A).
This looked like a good milling exercise so after an hour or so I had scaled up version of a standard scissors type ball joint separator.
After trying to use it I successfully bent the 16mm x 19mm section which I used as one leg of the scissors, but did not succeed in moving the joint.
Never having separated a ball joint before maybe I did not design with a sufficient margin of strength?
Does anyone have any tips on ball joint removal?
Alan
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wrote:

Put some pressure between the ball joint rod and the arm it's fastened to with a larger lever and keep weight on, then with the nut nearly off [ this is to protect the thread ] wack the side of the arm where the taper sits as hard as you can. Don't piss about with a toffee hammer use at least a 2 pound or 4 pound hammer and give it one. The ball joint will sprint out the taper.
John S.
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Or better still spring out <G>
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wrote:

Put some pressure between the ball joint rod and the arm it's fastened to with a larger lever and keep weight on, then with the nut nearly off [ this is to protect the thread ] wack the side of the arm where the taper sits as hard as you can. Don't piss about with a toffee hammer use at least a 2 pound or 4 pound hammer and give it one. The ball joint will sprint out the taper.
John S.
As John points out, you need to bash it hard, not on the end but on the side. It is the shock that releases the joint, not the amount of force or the direction it is applied. Be aware that the joint will spring out at high speed when it releases, so don't have any delicate bits of yourself in its path.
Cliff Coggin.
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"Cliff Coggin" wrote in message
wrote:

Put some pressure between the ball joint rod and the arm it's fastened to with a larger lever and keep weight on, then with the nut nearly off [ this is to protect the thread ] wack the side of the arm where the taper sits as hard as you can. Don't piss about with a toffee hammer use at least a 2 pound or 4 pound hammer and give it one. The ball joint will sprint out the taper.
John S.
As John points out, you need to bash it hard, not on the end but on the side. It is the shock that releases the joint, not the amount of force or the direction it is applied. Be aware that the joint will spring out at high speed when it releases, so don't have any delicate bits of yourself in its path.
Cliff Coggin.
For that reason I always leave the nut backed off a bit, but still on the threaded part. Over the years my sugar tongs (forked wedge) tools have served me well. A few strong sharp blows on the end, and the taper pops out with a bang!
Steve R.
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:49:01 -0800 (PST), John S

I use a ball joint splitter. Saves all the hitting (and missing and subsequent damage).
Like this: http://www.toolbox.co.uk/draper-ball-joint-separator-2114-67594
Any good DIY motoring shop should stock 'em.
--
brightside S9

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On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:36:51 +0000, brightside S9

Forget that, I see you say a standard one won't fit. Must wait until fully woken up before I post!
--
brightside S9

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[cut]
That makes sense. I never thought of hitting the side of the arm. I'll give it a try as soon as the weather shows some signs of improving!
Alan
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On 30 Nov 2010 00:41:21 +0000 (GMT), Alan Bain

Like Andrew I've found that using a lump hammer as an anvil on the reverse side helps enormously but hitting with a hammer on just one side rarely works. It's nigh on impossible with some cars to ever use a splitter, and if you do then no matter how careful you are you can end up damaging the boot which you can't buy separately. Not a problem if it's the joint you wanted to replace, but if you are just removing the hub for access to something else like a wheel bearing or a CV boot then its a complete pain.
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Thanks very much for all the suggestions and advice. I tried the two hammers technique and it worked beautifully. Ball joints separated in less than five minutes and no damage at all to the boots (which are of the type which cannot be repaced separately described above).
I wish I could say the same for ease of removal of the pinch bolt for the upper control arms (which needs to be fully withdrawn rather than just slackened before the arms will remove). I ended up removing the strut and mounting plate for the arms just to get the hub carrier out of the vehicle.
Alan
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Oh rats! I've got an A6 whcih is the same can with a different badge and I know the top arm needs doing - 'detectable slack, taking your life in yer hands mate' - yeah right. Off to the MoT this afternoon having missed it in the snow last week so I guess I'll be crawling under it this week, oh the joy....
Richard
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I've removed more taper joints than I can remember, all with either one or two hammers. If heat is needed, a kettle of boiling water is normally enough.
When reassembling, coat everything with Waxoyl. It stops things rusting/siezing together so the job's easier next time.
John
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Copper slip grease is pretty good for preventing future siezure too.
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tools
had
which
joint.
Lump hammer resting against one side as an anvil, and 2 lbs ball peen tapping fimly usually springs the joint, failing that it's the old hot/cold cycling trick.
AWEM
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On 29/11/2010 08:41, Andrew Mawson wrote:

My experience on Landrover ball joints is not to be shy! "Give it some welly" I broke a "proper" tool on the Defender!
I always take a sledgehammer along as well - not to use, but just to frighten the joint!
Cheers
Peter
--
1985 110 CSW (Clumber Spaniel Wagon)
1989 Defender 90
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:51:06 +0000, puffernutter

Hi Alan
I'd be reluctant to start heating it up as you may damage the rubber seal and I've found it can be impossible to get them separately.
It's worth having a look at the different types of tools available. The forked wedge type are effective and easy to use but destroy the rubber seal. The scissors type are quite good but I've sometimes found access difficult. As I recall one of the tricks with these is to screw it up tight and then whack the end of it.
Depending what shape the joint is it might be possible to get a puller type tool to act directly so the screw is on the end of the taper pin. I would have thought this might be easiest to lash up too. You can get ball joint separators that work like this but they're really only for small joints.
I have also done it once using two hammers as others suggest.
Best wishes
Russell
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My way also,but I don`t tap with the 2lb hammer.
Mark.
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Tap? Tap? Don't tap it boy, whack it as hard as you can.
(Apologies to John Cleese.)
Cliff Coggin.
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We've got a Passat somewhere in the snow.
Price for a ball joint is under 20 retail.
Do I need to give a sat nav ref to the local synagogue?
Really?
Norm
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Only modesty in my expression - tap was to be interpreted !
AWEM
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