At the Donnington exhibition, I purchased their kit of castings to make up a motorised hacksaw.
When I came to examine the contents yesterday, the main casting was unusable. The two halves of the mould were clearly misaligned. Opposite ends of bosses did not line up. When drilled and reamed through to take the various axles, there is no way that it would look right, no matter how inept the person who makes up the kit.
There has been an excessive amount of fettling to produce a straight edge on the top of the casting, getting rid of the misalignment, to the extent that the T-ribbing is reduced to paper thinness on one side , and therefore useless as a strengthening feature. A part of a casting that would normally remain unmachined has ugly gashes all along the length. It looks far worse than anything a novitiate machinist would ever produce.
It would seem that Blackgates are trading with excessive cynicism by sending out such an unusable casting. There is no way that this has been included by accident, carefully wrapped as it was in newspaper.
The size and weight of the component means that it's just not cost effective to try and remedy the matter by post.
I don't have the packing materials here for such a heavy thing.
After knowingly supplying such a poor quality item, there is no guarantee that they'd agree with the opinion (Not mine, incidentally, but another engineer, chartered, who was thinking of buying one), and so it'd just be sending good money after bad.
A reputable company wouldn't package and send out such a poor quality item in the first place. This is not a case of a casting that is, say, found to be porous or crumbling when you come to work on it, but a casting that is just plain wrong, and blatantly obviously so. The amount of fettling that has been done already, not just removing the excrescence along the line of the joint in the mould but also destroying the lines of the part in an effort to make it look the right shape, is an indication that they knew it was wrong, and yet they went ahead and sold it after carefully wrapping it up in layers of newspaper and selling it in a box. (Sealed, to boot).
Incidentally, it was not I who pointed out the error, but a qualified engineer who was also thinking of buying one and wanted to see what it was like. If it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't have woken up to the fraud for some time and then what looks like an amateurish attack with a grinding wheel would have been laid at my door, perhaps? Needless to say, Blackgates have lost another potential customer in him. When I take the box along to the next meeting of my local engineering club, I can guarantee that they'll lose many more. (Unfair to Blackgates? Perhaps, but they should have considered that when being unfair in their dealings?)
Therefore, I do not agree with your assertion that Blackgates are reputable. The preparation and concealment of this item was no accident.
The "terms and conditions" on a web-site somewhere are irrelevant; they did not refer to any web site at the time of the sale.
"Upon receipt of the faulty casting"? i.e, the buyer has to pay the cost of getting it to them. Caveat Emptor, and no mistake.
As I intimated, it's too much trouble with no guarantee of recovering the costs involved in returning the casting to them. I'll just drop it down to the local council offices at their Trading Standards office and point out the excessive fettling. Blackgates will get their come-uppance but at no further loss to me.
PS. As the result of the excessive fettling, the part is already smaller than it should be when held up against their engineering drawings.
So, you have a problem that you've not sought to remedy through the published procedures, and now you're making libellous statements in a world-wide forum, urging people not to do business with them. Blackgates is an extremely well-respected company with a good reputation they would be very keen to protect from unwarranted attack. I think your statements are probably actionable on at least two grounds.
Let's hope for your sake that the chaps at Blackgates are feeling especially tolerant, and decide not to take action. This could get expensive for you....
The T&C's are relevant, no matter where they put them. Of course, if you decree they're irrelevant then you've effectively chosen to forego your consumer rights. That's a smart move. Let's hope no-one forwards your message to Blackgates eh?
Have they offered to refund the P&P? Last time I had a return to ship to a company they sent me a UPS waybill. It also says "Every care has been taken to describe our goods correctly. Any errors are unintentional and will be amended if you advise us accourdingly." ( Sic ) Sounds like they're entirely willing to solve a client's grievances - given half a chance.
And the first thing your TS officer will ask you is for details of your correspondence with the company. When you inform the TS officer that you've made no attempt to contact the company with your complaint the officer will quite rightly advise you to contact said company. I could imagine you might even get a richly deserved brusque lecture about the role of the TS officer as an arbiter in consumer disputes - to whit, that's where you go AFTER you've had no luck complaining to the retailer. I can't possibly imagine what the TS officer would think once you'd left the office.
It would appear you've made no attempt whatsoever to unearth the nature of the error - and until you do any such accusations of unfair dealing are pure speculation. Given the choice between their reputation and yours, the decision is as foregone conclusion.
One thing's for sure, you're as clueless about complaining as you are about a great many other things - and whereas most normal people would have got on the phone and sorted it out amicably ( and quite possibly gleaned themselves a nice little 'extra' by way of an apology for any inconvenience ) you have chosen to blather about it pompously on a NG like you're the very first person ever to have received a duff order in the post instead of actually attempting to solve the problem.
Go away, and only come back when you've done the job properly.
Chances are it was wrapped up and boxed by someone who had no understanding as to whether the casting was good, bad, or indifferent. I'm sure they'd put matters right if you contacted them.
Blackgates are a very reputable company. I've boughts lots of stuff from them, including castings, and it's all been top quality.
There is nothing actionable or libellous on making statements that are evidentially true, as I have done.
There are no published procedures for remedying the situation, except the one that I propose to follow with the Trading Standards people.
I am certainly making statements urging people not to do business with them, but my statements are not libellous, neither are they libel, they are true. I suggest that you consult "Gatley" on this.
My attack on them is not unwarranted, and because of the shoddy goods that they have sold to me, they do not have a good reputation.
It won't get expensive for me, because, as I've said, I do not propose to send good money after bad.
You may disagree with me, but please make correct statements when you do.
The chaps at Blackgates are certainly tolerant; tolerant of poor quality goods and tolerant of taking their customer's money in exchange for poor quality goods.
You're not right there. Unless attention is drawn at the time of a sale to terms and conditions that are published elsewhere other than at the point of sale, then such terms and conditions do not apply.
The deliberate packing of a good that is clearly faulty is not unintentional.
They had a chance to resolve the grievance - by selling goods of merchantable quality in the first place. That they chose to wrap these goods in newspaper and then into a sealed box suggests that they have foregone their chance.
There is no excuse for passing off shoddy goods in this way, no matter who your friends are and with whom you choose to side.
I shouldn't need to put them right, the person who fettled the casting was well aware of the serious error in it, by the amount of work that has gone on.
As I said, it's a heavy casting, difficult and expensive to deal with. I disagree with your assertion that Blackgates are a very reputable company. Any company that double wraps defective goods in this way is not reputable.
As I said before, if it was a case of porous or crumbling castings whose defect could not be apparent at time of sale, then it would be reasonable to seek redress from the company.
In this case,however, it's not. It's a casting that has not been cast properly and for which attempts have been made to grind it back into shape, destroying the shape in the process.
Perhaps you have been lucky in your previous dealings with them?
Clearly you must th>You're not right there. Unless attention is drawn at the time of
Complete balderdash. Have a look at a random number of till receipts >What "also says that"?
Blackgates website, you fool - it's on the exact same page as YOU quoted from. I guess you tend not to read that well - or rather you didn't read it all, did you?
How do you know? You haven't asked. You're just making an assumption. That's what you do - and you're about as reliable as a cheese spanner in that regard.
And you never make mistakes eh? How do you know it wasn't a dodgy casting that had been set aside for examination? How do you know there wasn't a 'work experience' kid working in the despatch dept. that day?
You know nothing, other than what you wish to believe.
There's no excuse for accepting shoddy goods like this - unless you're thick, ignorant coward who doesn't have the balls to complain to the right people. Is that it? Are you so socially inept that you daren't pick up the phone and talk to them in case someone says 'Boo'?? Why not write them a letter - or better yet, there's an email form right there on their website...or are you even too scared to visit their website?
Perhaps the goods were perfect - and you're just trying to cover up the fact that you screwed them up. I can think of no other reason why someone wouldn't want to bring a genuine, honest complaint to the door of a retailer.
I'm sid>> >> And the first thing your TS officer will ask you is for details of
More like piss>> >> It would appear you've made no attempt whatsoever to unearth the
OK - so tell us precisely what steps you've taken to contact the retailer, tell us what their response was. Better yet - tell us precisely what prevents you from picking up the phone, calling Blackgates and saying 'You know that casting you sent me recently? Well, I'm not at all happy with it'. Go on - tell us.
Every trader, since year dot, makes mistakes occasionally - and that they do isn't necessarily a benchmark of their standards...rather it's the way they handle those complaints that determines their status. I've dealt with hundreds of companies down the years and have had plenty of cause to complain from time to time, and the matter has always been resolved to everyone's satisfaction. In fact, I very much enjoy complaining to BT - they've been extremely generous with their 'apologies'. There can't be a court in the land that wouldn't chuck you and your 'grievance' out on its arse on the spectacularly obvious and simple fact that you've made absolutely no effort whatsoever and in any way, shape or form to resolve the error with the company in question.
You are mind-boggling in your sheer and utter moronic stupidity - even a ten year old kid knows to take his gameboy back to the shop if it doesn't work.
Do come back to us when you've contacted Blackgates and stated your complaint.
You obviously do not even want to help yourself by contacting the comapny in question. Why do you burden the group with your ramblings, posing a question then not accepting any of the replies given? If you are such a know-it-all, why even ask anybody elses opinion?
What would you expect the outcome to be if you went to Trading Standards? The first part of their published procedure is to ask if you have contacted the retailer in question! I dont think you would be in the TS office for more than 30 seconds!
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Nevertheless, it's a casting weighing 7 1/2 pounds postage for which would be severe, and if Blackguards Engineering thought it was of merchantable quality when they sent it out, they are not going to agree with any opinion to the contrary, neither are they going to refund any monies. I will not send good money after bad.
In any case, having subjected their poor reputation and the poor quality of their goods to a public airing, any subsequent approach to them by me could well be interpreted as duress or acting with menace. Hence, I will not be approaching them, but I shall take every opportunity to put the castings on show, together with an explanation. They diddled me; I shall give them their just desserts.
I showed the casting to a near neighbour who used to be the chief fitter in a local engineering works and who dealt with castings all the time.
He said that the misalignment of the circular bosses was to be expected, "par for the course", but that the misalignment > > I don't have the packing materials here for such a heavy thing.
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