Broken maraging sword - any use?

I fence as a hobby (many of my questions are regarding the manufacture of fencing equipment) and occasionally blades get snapped - the steel used is very tough (maraging steel on my blades) so I wonder whether it would be suitable for grinding into use for cutting tools and the like?

Norman,

Fortunately the japanese sword making techniques have not been lost. There are still craftsmen making sword blades the same way. There is a good technical description of the process here:

However if you want to order one they start at about 10,000 GBP and go up to about 50,000!

Russell.

I am surprised to hear they use it for swords, I have only ever heard of it being used in extreme conditions like the teeth of JCB jaws (in fact I haven't heard the term mentioned much at all since I first came across it 30 years ago). Very high strength combined with huge impact toughness.

I don't suppose it is quite as good as HSS for tools, otherwise we may have seen it used. Possibly its not quite as hard, or maybe it isn't so good at holding up when really hot, or maybe its simply that its more expensive ! Why not try it out and let us know.

Interesting to hear if other have come across it. Steve

In another Forum, I have just reminded readers of an article- dating back to perhaps 1888 of Swordmaking in Shotley Bridge- and now on the net. My family- including cousin Rowan lived there.I was- ahem- in Avalon Masonic Lodge.

Legend has it that good swords could be wrapped in a coil and placed in a gentleman's top hat- and this was a polite way of ridding one of an opponent.

So, Robin, if you are good enough, you can laminate high quality carbon steels onto a mild steel edge and re-use it. Good wood plane irons- and I do mean good- are made this way.

Of course, good blacksmiths like my father would have re-forged the swords and re-tempered them with only a bit of charring wood as an indicator.

Err, yes?

Norm

I'd love to forge my own blades - the ones I like cost =A360 each...

I'd never heard of the term before but you piqued my curiosity so I lookedit up on Wikipedia at and found this :

"Stainless maraging steels have been applied to the increasingly technical field of golf club heads and in the manufacture of surgical components and hypodermic syringes. They are not suitable for scalpel blades, however, as their virtually zero carbon content prevents them holding a good cutting edge."

So maybe cutting tools would get blunt too quickly ? ISTM that usually it's hardness you require from a lathe turning tool with strength toughness being a secondary consideration. Maybe someone here knows an application in this arena that does use maraging steel though ?

At no point do I wish to correct Boo's comments but a couple of decades ago we were experiencing difficulties in niobium based high strength low alloy steels in car bodies. They would weld with oxy acetylene on repair but would line crack- with disasterous consequences later. Again, OA was criticised for tempering carbon lathe tools 50 years ago because the tools absorbed excess carbon.

Here we are actually short of carbon so it seems that Robin try OA welding.

Forgive me but I was thinking that the old German emigre swordmakers of Shotley Bridge were folding carbon into their sword blades in 1667 et seq.

Nothing is as OT as it first appears.

Cheers

Norm

(snip)

and adzes too!

I'd be surprised if you could weld a broken blade back together and retain enough strength and flexibility to be useable. I suppose fencing swords don't have to retain an edge - they're dangerous enough when blunt!!

Russell, I am indebted to you for the Japanese information- which I had some knowledge. Unfortunately, the earlier sources of the actual German production was lost- I assume with the need to change languages etc. Sadly, the old families have almost gone but so too have many companies such as Ambrose Crowley and he came from London and Consett Iron Company etc. The Huguenot influence is also here and we still have an exciting village called Pity Me which is a corruption of 'Petit Mer' or little sea from some pond or lake near there.It is a pity (?) that so much industrial and other history and associated techniques have gone in my lifetime.My father was the last of a long line and could even temper copper like- I presume the ancients could.

Thanks

Norman

Yeah, I have noticed that decent blacksmiths are getting expensive. Of course back in those days a decent metallurgist was worth his weight in gold - they say it is the second oldest profession.

Steve

Ah, well, it's only money I suppose. It does put the costs of Robin's fencing on a parallel with fencing from B&Q!

Interesting stuff.Thanks

Norman

Have you not used it much then ?

There is a good book on Japanese swords called The Craft of the Japanese Sword, by Kapp, IIRC, and a japanese smith that Imcannot recall the name of.

Covers the whole process from pyrite sand to finishes product, and all the hands a sword must pass through to reach a finished state.

It neatly debunks rather a pile of mumbo jumbo that has been sold to the buying public, about the mysterious process of making one of these blades.

The process evolved the way it did mainly to utilise a poor source for ones iron ore.

There is much in the book about the politics that evolved the swordsmithing art to the state it is in today, as well. It's a good read, if interested in the stuff.

Cheers Trevor Jones

On or around 23 Nov 2006 01:05:21 -0800, "Steve" enlightened us thusly:

sounds good for interrupted cuts.

On or around Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:47:39 -0600, "russell eberhardt" enlightened us thusly:

This is what I know as Damascus steel. Apparently very labour-intensive to make.