Has anyone seen this yet?

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:


And this technology is?

Yes, that is well known, and in fact some localities in the US were running DC as late as the mid '60s. What of it?

You've never been involved with the initial release of a new product have you? At that point you don't know enough about how it's going to hold up in service to be able to do that kind of fine tuning. In any case, GE doesn't sell electricity so why would they do this?

You mean like methanol fuel cells?

They would bring it to market themselves if they could, but there is no such thing so they can't. Or haven't you heard of CAFE?

So?
I've never worn out an umbrella. I've lost many of them. Your scenario makes a false assumption about the umbrella market.

So how does one make any of those things in such a manner that it won't break? Sorry, but you're finding a conspiracy where there isn't one.

When were you a hunter-gatherer?

Huh?
And yet somehow you have discovered all these secrets. Gee, seems that they failed.
--
--John
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'll just comment on this one.
The main impetus behind a DC power grid was non other than Thomas Edison. If there was ever anyone in history that people would listen to, trust, and invest in, it was Edison and his companies. The fact that we don't have a DC grid is based on pure economics that even a famous inventor like Edison couldn't change: AC is cheaper to generate and transmit than DC.
While I have no doubt there have been technologies developed and then buried to keep the status quo, this wasn't one of them. The debate of AC versus DC was well publicized at the time, and everyone who read the paper knew about it.
-- Gordon
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In the united states, it is taught in gradeschool to highschool that Benjamin Franklin flew a kite with a key on it, and discovered electricity.
Then Edison made the lightbulb.
Who invented AC? We use it every day. We're taught that Ford invented the automobile. We use them every day.
Who invented AC?
ask a high schooler.
The inventor isn't taught.
Edison is taught, and is taught to be a "wizard" of electricity. A student in the USA school system will probably tell you Franklin or Edison invented AC electricity.
What did Edison invent?
He was an entertainment invention improver... He improved the motion picture machine, the phonograph. He took someone else's idea (light bulb) and randomly tried different elements until he found one that would last long.
his company manufactured the lightbulb in this form for a few years before they figured out if they built them to break, people would have to come back and buy more.
Who invented AC?
Why isn't it taught?
What else did he invent?
What else did he discover?
why is Edison, and entertainment machine improver, taught in USA school system, and the inventor of AC power generation + transmission + AC electric motor is forgotten?
Edison had the backing of the industry owners at the time. He was a thief who stole other's ideas and claimed they were his own.
Read about these events in our history. Read where the money was at, and who was friends with the people that had the money?
Read about how the guys with the money accepted, and rejected new technologies.
Read about the things the schools didn't teach you.
Or not... it may be more comfortable for most people to believe what information they are fed.
Rich
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
[Snip standard Tesla conspiracy rant]

A significant percentage of american high schoolers probably couldn't find France on a world map. This doesn't imply a conspiracy to keep France hidden.
And, frankly, I'm unaware of any modern textbook (high school or otherwise) that credits Edison with the invention of alternating current. I have yet to see anyone other than Tesla so-credited. Furthermore, his debate (or feud) with Edison was well-publicised at the time, and remains well known today.
If your average high-schooler is unaware of this it isn't because of a conspiracy of silence, it because he or she frankly just doesn't care.
What the average secondary school student does or does not know is a pretty lousy metric by which to judge the existence of a coverup.
--
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I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your comments, but beyond what grade schoolers learn about Thomas Edison, the history of the invention of alternating current, the polyphase motor, and associated technologies is hardly a secret. Entire books have been written on the subject, and Tesla is not an unknown name. Like Henry Ford and JP Morgan, Edison became an American icon, and he gets more coverage in history books than most other inventors, but that has nothing to do with your previous statements regarding forgotten technologies.
Benjamin Franklin did not "discover" electricity when he was flying a kite. He already knew about electricity, and had several other prior inventions covering the subject. He was attemping (foolishly) to demonstrate the lightning conductor.
People love to deride Edison because he "took credit" for inventions his associates developed. So what. They were on his payroll. Edison figured out how to turn them into products. Tesla didn't know how to make money with his ideas. That's why Edison is super famous and Tesla is not. History likes entrepreneurs. Don't be so quick to dismiss them.
-- Gordon
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

In what grade school or high school is this taught? Anyone who has ever lived in a cold climate and had the acquaintance of a cat knew about electricity--they might not know the name but they had certainly experienced it.

And?
(a) who cares who invented it and (b) last I heard it was Tesla.

Maybe _you_ were, but everybody else I know who gives a damn was taught that it was invented by Karl Benz.

Asked and answered. Why are you repeating yourself? Is your record skipping? Who invented the phonograph by the way?

Why would one want to ask a high schooler anything about events that occurred before said high schooler was borne? If you want information on the latest fads or the like a high schooler would be a good source, but unless he has an interest in history and studies it independently one would not expect him to know about such things.

No, he isn't. He's dead so it's a bit late to be sending him to school.

So? A student in a school in the US (there is no "USA school system", the schools are managed by the individual states or in some cases by local governments) generally will tell you that New Mexico is part of Mexico and if asked to point to Washington, DC on a globe will likely point to some location in Australia, so why would you expect them to be able to identify obscure engineers?

So?
Since you seem to think that one has to deliberately set out to create a light bulb that will burn out, how does one make one that will not?

Is there an echo in here?

Because nobody gives a damn?

Who?
Forgotten by who? The local bookstore has more books on the shelf about Tesla than about Edison.

Pity those others didn't have patent lawyers of the same caliber as those employed by hole in the wall software companies today.

Read about it where? I thought that it had all been covered up. Do strive for at least an appearance of consistency.

Where would one read about this?

Like "don't listen to lunatics raving on USENET"?

The name of the person who invented alternating current has about the same relevance to every day life today as does the name of whoever first discovered that a sharp edge on a rock will cut.
--
--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

Cugnot, actually, if you consider an "automobile" also includes steam-powered engines.
But seriously, as in my other reply to Rich, "inventors" like Ford are given credit because they commercialized the idea. Before his death Benz built maybe 10,000 cars total; Ford built some 15 million Model T's alone.
-- Gordon
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Gordon McComb wrote:

OK -- you beat me to this. But it was really more of a tractor.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty wrote:

LOL...I can't believe how far off the path this thread has gone. I apologize for making an actual post about robotics. I posted it to the wrong group. ;-)
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Shawn B. wrote:

I sort of have to accept an amount of the responsibility, I guess, for posting about "cold fusion," I think that was the break in the flow. :-) What's really funny, however, is how fast it got off track.
Walking robot-> full throttle -> power concerns -> cold fusion (me) -> nuclear conversion -> ....... Cugnot's steam powerd tractor -> Remember \robotics\ ? (you)
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

By the magnitude and importance there of.

Without supporting fact, this assertion can not be taken seriously. You are assuming that someone has had an invention and it was never public, but the fault in your reasoning is that you could not know about it either.
Secrets and conspiracies very much resemble "Schrodinger's Cat" in that once someone knows about them, they are no longer secret.

Yes, and it was abandoned because although Edison called alternating current witchcraft, it was better than DC. MUCH better than DC.

Yup, and people came along and made more efficient ones.

And how would they stop it?

Again, how would they stop it?

Mostly true, but that's why new industries pop up. Do you think the typewriter and "liquid paper" companies would allow products in the market that made them obsolete? How about adding machine companies?
If there is any validity to your argument, think of *all* the industries that were virtually wiped out by computers. How on earth was the computer allowed to come to the market? Simple, because you really can't stop a good idea. Delay, maybe, obstruct, sure. Stop? No way.

That's nonsense. If you don't make it, someone else will.

Until someone makes an umbrella with a lifetime warrentee.

That too, is nonsense. Light bulbs *can't* last forever, but LEDs are getting bright enough to replace them. They currently do so in a lot of flashlights, and they last for, almost, ever.
Automobiles, well, I don't know how they last as long as they do. Amazing machines.
Shoes? Not and be comfortable.
Clothing? See shoes.
Paint? Everything exposed to the elements wares away.
Roads? See paint.
Actually, in *all* the industries you mention, great strides have been made to improve the products to last longer.

It isn't a secret. You can't make something that is used and lasts forever. It doesn't work that way, certainly not in any sort of economy where cost of the device has to be finite. That isn't a conspiracy to make it more breakable, but if you used carbon fiber struts, a titanium shaft, and woven kevlar sheet for an umbrella, it may, in fact, last for ten or twenty years without ever failing, but who would pay a grand for an umbrella?

When, of course there was food. Not all primitives were "hunter gatherers" many, in fact most successful peoples were agrarian.

Oh please, are you serious? 4 hours a day work, the rest recreation for hunter gatherers? Hardly. Shelter, heat (finding wood), making clothing, preserving food if possible, finding/getting water, sickness -- LOTS of sickness, lucky for them life spans of 35 years.

Who is "they" and why do you listen?

Again, who told you?

Secrets can't be kept, they all get out sooner or later.

In the history of man kind, there have never been secrets that remain so. They always get out.

The information may not be universally known, but that doesn't mean it is secret. I may know many things which you do not, that doesn't mean they are secret. All you would need is curiosity.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

D'oh! And to think they've been using steam all these years in nuclear power plants.
Seriously, such an antenna would be nearly atomic in size because of the wavelengths involved. Plus, the principle nuclear emission from spent fuel rods is alpha particles, which don't travel far. The antenna (antennas) would have be very close to the rod to be effective. Fuel rods are known to turn cement casings into a spongy mass. Think how long an antenna would last. It would just be yet another highly radioactive material to dispose of.
-- Gordon
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I got to see this machine during their demonstration at SwRI last year, as one of the groups funded by DARPA's Biodynotics program. Looks like they have made impressive progress since then.
Shawn B. wrote:

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