Large Model Rocket Suggestions

I'm a Born again looking for suggestions for large model rockets which would fall in the gap between model rocketry and HP model rocketry.
I like the launchpad kits, but I'm looking for something a little more solid, maybe TTW fins. The Hi-Tech H45 looks like a good candidate, except for it's weight (1.5lbs without motor). This would require FAA notification before launch. I've never done this, maybe it's not as bad as it sounds? I like the idea of being able to throw a high power motor in it when I get the opportunity.
Maybe the Graduator?
I am planning to get my level one eventually, but I'm not in any hurry.
Is economical to use reloads for rockets of this size?
Thanks Tom
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At least LOOK at the USR Banshee and Warp-1.
http://www.v-serv.com/usr

29mm-240 and higher but of course larger SU are available in "better" thrust curves.

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Those rockets are exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks!!!
Tom
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I've built a Banshee. It's a very good kit.

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Correction-- It's a very good kit if you add an eyebolt and some kevlar line to the forward centering ring as an anchor for the chute.

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How many flights does that kevlar line last exposed to the ejection charge like that?
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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I haven't flown it yet, but I'll let you know.
This is the same method Mike Fisher at Binder Designs uses to attach shock cords and when I asked him that question he said he has rockets that have over thirty flights with no problems.

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If you have a product upgrade suggestion that is proven, I am game. Elastic is passe.

Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Publish a review in EMRR and send photos to USR for the web page.
Heck, publish a review in Sport Rocketry.
Please :)
Jerry
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nam wrote:

Notifications are fairly straight-forward, once you know who it is you need to call. It's easiest to get GPS coordinates for the launch site -- the FAA will accept them, and unless you already have FAA maps, it's easier than determining and providing locations in radials and distances.

Yes. Although the bigger the motor, the faster you save money with reloads versus single use.
-Kevin
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You can get GPS coordinates from www.mapsonus.com. I've taken coordinates from them, put them into my GPS, and been within a hundred feet or so of my target destination. It pointed me to the FRONT DESK instead of the front door of the NARAM-45 hotel this summer!
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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tom: Per NFPA and FAR regulations, large model rockets weigh 1 to 3.3 pounds (454 to 1500 grams) at launch
and contain less than 125 grams of total fuel.
and by defintion requires FAA notification for issuance of a NOTAM...and no its not that bad.. When launching rockets which fall within this definition, FAA regulations require that the nearest Air Traffic
Control center (ATC) and any airports within five nautical miles be notified of the launch between 24 and
48 hours prior to the launch. This is notification and not permission. Phone numbers for FAA ATC's may
be found in the Transportation/FAA section of the white pages under the Federal Government listings.
When notifying the FAA, provide the following information.
Notice of Large Model Rocket Launch - FAR 101.22
Pursuant to the requirements set down in Federal Aviation Regulation 101.22, this is a notice of a launch
event for Large Model Rockets. For your information, a Large Model Rocket is defined as a model that
uses not more than 125 grams of propellant, made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic, containing no
substantial metal parts, and weighing not more than 1,500 grams including propellant. A model rocket,
exempt from regulation as per FAR 101, Subpart C, is identical in definition except that its maximum
weight is 453 grams and its maximum propellant weight is 113 grams. The following information is
specifically required by this regulation:
Name, address, and telephone number of Launch Coordinator:
Location of Launch Site:
Date and Time of Launch Operation:
Estimated Number of Rockets to be Operated:
Estimated Size and Weight:
Estimated Maximum Altitude:
As per the requirements of FAR 101.23, this launch event will be cancelled if the horizontal visibility is less
than five miles or if the sky is more than five-tenths obscured at the maximum estimated altitude. In
addition, if surface winds exceed a steady 20 miles per hour, this launch event will also be cancelled for
safety reasons.
This notice, or equivalent information via telephone, is being provided to the FAA and to all known airports
within a 5 nautical mile radius of the above-named launch location.
If You have a L1 there are a number of H size rocket motors, that you can use in Model Rockets that weigh < 453 grams (1 lb) that doesn't require this FAA NOTAM:
Motor Dia Type PropW LEUP L1 H55W -29mm SU 99.7g Y Y H128W -29mm R 94.2g N Y H148R -38mm R 122.0g N Y H165R -29mm R 90.0g N Y H180R -29mm R 123.9g N Y H210R -29mm R 110.8g N Y H220T -29mm R 106.4g N Y H238T -29mm R 83.4g N Y H242T -38mm R 114.7g N Y
Those engines above, < 113g (H55W/H128W/H165R/H210R/H220T/H238T) when used in a model rocket that weighs <E3g is considered a MODEL ROCKET and NO FAA waiver or FAA NOTAM needs be issued. YOU must still have a NAR/TRA L1 Certification to be able to purchase and use those H engines.
Those engines above >113g but < 125g (H148R,H180R,H242T)when used in a model rocket that weighs <E3 g is considered a MODEL ROCKET and NO FAA waiver or FAA NOTAM needs be issued. YOU must still have a NAR/TRA L1 Certification to be able to purchase and use these H engines.
You could take an Estes Executioner for example which weighs approx 8.1 oz...mod it for 29mm engines and the rocket/engine combo would weigh less than <453 grams total and it would still be considered a model rocket. It sims to approx 2400 ft on a H180R......not bad for a model rocket... Or you could beef up the LaunchPad kits for LMR/Low HPR ?
shockie B)

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<snip>
Wow, excellent info. I had never considered that I could go into the H motor size without a waiver if I stay within weight. I had been putting off Level 1 because I didnt think I'd get many opportunities to fly anything higher than a G without driving 4 hours to do it.
Thanks!
Tom
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FAA doesn't recognize motor classes. Just model and propellant weights.
But remember that even though you can fly an HPR rocket without a waiver (and in some cases without even notification!), you still have to follow the more restrictive HPR safety code for these rockets, and have the appropriate certification.
At NARAM-42, when they denied our waiver at the last minute, we still flew limited HPR and some folks did their L1 certifications anyway.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

According to who?
Not FAA Not ATF Not CPSC Not states

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Since it's Bob, he's probably referring to NAR rules, in which case his statement is true.
-dave w
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Hence NAR is broken.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Both good choices. There really isn't much that can support HPR motors yet stay light enough to fly without at least notification. But notification isn't that hard to get. Of course if you fly with a club, that makes it even easier.
If you drop the ability to fly with an H motor, then lots of possibilities open up. You mentioned The Launch Pad. The Executioner is another possibility. In fact, just about any 2.6" diameter rocket with a 24mm MMT falls in the LMR category.

I recommend a larger rocket for your L1 flight. Something 4" around and perhaps in the 1-2# weight range. The LOC-IV is still my first choice.

Yes, as long as you don't lose them. If you've got rockets with 24mm MMT, then the 24/40 is a great choice. Likewise, the 29/40-120 is good for rockets with 29mm MMTs.
My one warning for first time users. Beware of the low thrust BlackJack motors. People pay too much attention to the letter than to the number that follows. An E11 will NOT lift a heavy rocket that flies great on E15 or E30s. It's the same gotcha that's bitten folks with the D12 vs E9.
And don't forget that the G33 is a high power motor that requires that the user have L1 certification and fly under the HPR safety code, not the model rocket safety code. [and if the JBGTs get their way, an LEUP and storage]
Why? 72g propellant.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

Bullshit. See my link.

Crippleware opportunities.

Point.
Jerry
--
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