model rocket locater devices - options?

hello,

i flew my new comanche 3 triple stage rocket for the first time yesterday and promptly lost the 1st and 2nd stages (luckily enough the main body stage was recovered).

can anyone recommend a method for finding small rocket stages in large fields with longish grass e.g. smoke pellets, sound locators, beepers, anything?

thanks for any advice, i am new to model rockets and would appreciate any experience so as to make my learning curve a little shallower.

tom, brighton, uk

Tom, There's a great line in _Animal House_. It'd be impolite of me to repeat it here, but that's what you did :)

It's a common beginner's mistake. Unless the wind is nearly dead calm, you need extra eyes to recover multistage rockets. Beepers aren't really suitable for booster stages; there's not really any payload space in which to put them. Instead, one set of eyes per stage, maybe two on the sustainer, is the best way to go.

Club launches work well for having extra eyes. Otherwise, get busy and have some kids :)

Even then, I lost the sustainer to my 3-stage Midget on Christmas eve. My daughters were tracking the first two stages while my son was assigned the sustainer. Thinking my youngest girl needed help, I backed her up on stage 2. My son wasn't really experienced at tracking, and I had failed to impart any instructions (or wisdom) beforehand, so I accept the blame for that one.

Tracking the upper stage can be tricky. It's easy to look away when the rocket gets hard to see. (I have similar problems tracking errant golf shots :) Anyway, the key is to stay focused on that point in the sky. Often times, soon after the rocket becomes invisible, the smoke trail kicks in and you can once again see it. Likewise, it's necessary to keep looking all the way day. It's easy to look away and then not be able to spot it again. Finally, once it's on the ground, be sure to pick a landmark on the line to the rocket. Also, note a landmark where you're standing so that as you walk the line to the rocket, you'll have a point to look back at to keep yourself on line.

HTH, Doug

In thinking after I posted this I feel I should make clear that for a GPS receiver to draw a line from your position to a distant point it needs to have an electronic compass and the software to create that bearing in the display. Not all receivers have this capability or the design feature. Within the Garmin receivers in the small, handheld eTrex line there are only two that do this - the Vista (which I used) and, I think, the Summit.

Just be aware that you cannot do it with just any receiver and look before you buy.

Pete "who got this idea from an RMR discussion last fall by Bob Kaplow - Thanks, Bob, it saved the day yesterday" Lilja

For such small boosters, you're options are pretty limited. First off, I'd paint them fluorescent orange or red, so that they'll really stand out. The smallest beeper I know of is the Pratt MicroBeacon. You could probably tape one to the outside of each booster, if you're not too worried about the extra drag. Or make a little pod to fit it into, as if it were an external motor.

That's right, Ray. It really could be a problem to go down in the corn. A person probably shouldn't go in alone. I did have those thoughts while searching for that rocket. If I were to go down it'd be no easier to find me (and probably even less easy since nobody would get a line on where I went down) than the rocket that drew me in to that godforsaken place.

Pete "I really hate corn" Lilja

I'll back you up on this one! The 4th of July found me and some other family members out launching rockets. The wind on the ground was nice and calm, but the [invisible] winds aloft were pretty strong, which we found out too late. First flight was fantastic, and landed about 150 feet from the pad, so we adjusted the launch angle a bit and put a bigger motor in the next one, and away she went... at apogy, she CATO'd. Half of the rocket came back down ballistic, landing near where the first one landed in a crumpled mess (such a disheartening sight to watch it come down and fold up as it hits the ground). The other half, with parachute fully (beautifully!) deployed, sailed off on the winds aloft, and landed some disance away in a corn field. Two of our crew headed into the corn, and I went to inspect the damage to the crumpled body-turned-missile. After about half an hour, with the other half still lost, I decided to call it quits, since the damage to the half that we had was bad enough that the rocket will probably never fly again... so, if any of you happens to be an Illinois corn farmer, and you find what appears to be half of a rocket in your field, drop me a line and I'll come pick it up. :)

CORN is indeed a 4-letter word.

-- Jacob Thurman

Well, at least it landed in short Illinois corn, rather than real Iowa corn.

Pete, I took that consideration into account when picking out my GPS unit. I also wanted to use it fishing so I had more than just rockets in mind. I selected the Venture because it met the best of both worlds. It doesn't have a built in compass, but I have a pocket compass that I've use in the past. Here's how I worked it;

Watched rocket dissapear beyond the second hill side. Take bearing using pocket compass. Use Garmin to "project waypoint", using 80deg from pocket compass and .8 miles as rough guess for distance. Walk over to road, then along road until it veered away from projected way point. Enter field, taking easiest route to projected line. Follow line from starting position to projected waypoint. Data fields showed how far off line I was, how far I'd gone, current speed, what I had for breakfast, what was for lunch, etc. In the tall wheat, I nearly stepped on my rocket at just over .5 miles out.

steve

Try

for some small radio transmitter beacons.

Paul.

Sounds like a great way to do essentially the same thing. Since this was really the first time I couldn't see my rocket on the ground from the launch site since I bought the GPS it was my first test. I'm very happy with the results, of course, but I still need to get some more practice in land navigation through Monster Cornfields.

I plan to always have my GPS with fresh batteries at future launches. It's a godsend....

Pete "From the Tall Corn State - yet still hates corn!" Lilja

selected the Venture

compass, but I have a

showed how far off

what was for lunch,

Garmin manufactures a product (name escapes me) that functions as both a radio and a GPS. The beauty of this is that if you place one radio in the rocket, it will send its location to another handset (yours) and you follow it. That would be for larger rockets.

For a smaller rocket, try R-DAS. they have a device slightly larger than a regualr altimeter that transmits real-time location to your laptop.

THis is all for high altitude flights. For smaller flights, try a piezio and a 9v. bat.

Fly high!

Matt

Everyone should have an FRS radio to call for help if needed. They are just too handy to not have one anyway. Especially for the folks running a big launch.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Rino. Named because of the dual antenna shape. I think it's the 120 model that has the display that shows you where the other Rino units are. A friend in UT uses them for search and rescue.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I don't think the Venture does anything more than the bottom of the line eTrex as far as rocket finding goes. There are only 3 GPS units with the compass built in that I'm aware of: the Summit, Vista, and the GPSMap76S. The last two have very similar features and prices, but the Vista is smaller. There's also the new Geco series that is functionally similar to the base eTrex.

Bob's recommendation: if all you want to do is find lost rockets, get the Summit. If you also want to use it for road navigation etc, get the Vista.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I agree, Bob, but another person is better yet. If a lone someone were to go down from heat exhaustion/stroke or a sudden cardiac event while in a cornfield they're probably a goner. Unconsciousness with a radio or a cell phone won't do you much good. Even if you could make a call for help you're as tough as a rocket to find.

Pete

I stand corrected, Bob. When I got home I looked at my unit (didn't seem Venture was right). It's a Legend. Does all the Nav stuff, has download capability marine and roads, and is a fine rocket finder.

steve

The new units from GPSFlight look good--a tiny GPS receiver and a 900MHZ transmitter. Functionally very similar to a RINO for rocketry purposes, but designed specifically for aerospace hobbiests. One could make something marginally cheaper by watching for OEM GPS bargains on e-bay, and using something like the LINX transmitter/receiver modules and matching transmit amplifiers.

And on the topic of "stuff you'd rather your rocket not come down in". Southern Alberta hayfield. I flew my 'I' altitude attempt a couple of weeks ago at Roc Lake VI. I flew it with a Walston transmitter. My buddy and I spent two hours slogging through the most immuno-toxic stuff I've ever encountered in my life. I wasn't entirely sure we were going to make it--sneezing, wheezing, running eyes, my buddy developed hives! We found the rocket, and obviously *did* make it, but if we had succumbed due to anaphylaxis or something, we'd be hard as heck to find!

Long Chrome Streamers

bird tape

3 or 4 pieces 12 or 20 feet long in place of or in addition to a small drogue will help you track those high fliers.

put 1 or 2 long ones in with the main and they will drape over bushes, trees, corn etc. as your rocket nestles in.

marine and roads,

The Legend has more memory than the Venture. But neither of them have any features that make them better for rocket finding than the base eTrex model. Only the Summit and Vista do.

For a side by side comparison of the eTrex models, see (very long URL)

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!