Good info, and probably workable, so it also probably doesn't have a chance in he!! of getting through the political BS in Washington. Very impressive effort.
Did anyone else get a laugh thinking that the posters name might draw a bit of negative attention to the cause :)?
I mean, how would you like to be named McVeigh, and your business neeeded to rent trucks on a regular basis? You would get a LOT of strange looks.
What I find interesting is that merely by reposting this stuff from the ARSA site and making clarifying comments on them when asked, (again using only thrid party source matrial as a basis for his analysis) HE WAS BOOTED FROM THE TRA LISTSERV!
For making rmr posts!
And David Wilkins was so effusive about how fair he was, and that so long as the listserv didn't reduce down to any political debate (as if that would be a bad thing in such a politically motivated club) he would let all users stand.
And what's more, now a TRA member in good standing hemself, is not on the TRA listserv!
Don't you just love the TRA and Calvinball?
I have not been posting material from MY source because let's face it, most of what TRA does is drivel anyway. But the game of calvinball certainly has continued and energy is now focusing on some new targets now that I am out of range. Shots keep coming and missing BTW. They never forget. They're like elephants.
I even heard a NEW restatement of an OLD charge. Someone was told I was not allowed to fly at ROC because I "switched" a motor. I never switched a motor in my life. I always stated what motors I was flying because I was proud and I wlways let the RSO have the final say on whether it flies or not. SO I go on the record as stating any motors ever flown at a ROC launch were DISCLOSED and alllowed by the LCO/RSO.
I point out. Just check the flight card. It tells all.
Jerry
So what else is new. If he keeps it up, it's only a matter of time before the boot him from the club. It's happened before :-(
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Isn't anyone going to comment on the obvious, that is, if the original couldn't make it through committee without being modified, then end up being blocked by Lautenburg & Schumer, what makes anybody think the same won't happen with this one, other than wishful (delusional) thinking?
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
All this "focus group" noise does is give the allusion that ARSA is actually playing an active role in advancing legislation. In fact, none of the posts give any clue as to HOW the focus group's recommendations will be implemented. The allusion is required because the legislation has no chance of advancing and they know it. But they have a focus group.
If I'm wr> Isn't anyone going to comment on the
How do you know it would be proposed as a floor introduction instead of an amendment to some other bill?
-dave w
What? When? How?
Somehow it has to get the the Senate floor. And the House.
David We> Alex Mericas wrote:
You sure about that Jerry? I know people were complaining about the multiple redundent crossposting, but I never heard anything about him being booted from the list.
Ray It was a secret. I have a suggestion. Ask about it on the list and watch the list manager go high order over such a simple and on-topic request. After all the remainder of the members would not want to be removed from the list for something they said that was clearly intended to be compliant with the rules.
Subject: "NAR BoD Declines John Wickman Leadership"
David Wilkins evoked the previoud promise that further breaches of confidentiality would result in my immediate and unannounced eviction from the listServ.
[there was no actual breach of confidentiality BTW]someone:
looks like I finally got booted off TRA listserv following my scathing attack on John Kyte on RMR two weeks ago
I just stopped getting TRA messages one day, David W. doesn't answer my emails, and any attempts to resubscribe are unacknowledged.
it certainly was just a matter of time ...
cheers,
BTW, check out this crap from ROL. I think the wording was chosen to respond to my RMR posts. Alot of damage control, that is.
[omitted, I will let someone else post the ROL forums message to this thread if they want to. It is fair game for commentary]and finally the offending post to rmr:
reference to "evidence on a private forum" that John Kyte was basically the enemy of righteous rocketry.
That's it!
Welcome to TRA the land of the decline.
Welcome to Calvinball.
Jerry
One thing I don't get - once the original legislation was introduced, how could NAR
*NOT* get involved? When another party (ARSA) causes legislation to be introduced which would have a major impact on NAR and its members, it would look *irresponsible* to both its membership, and probably to the senate too, if they just sat back and did *NOTHING*.If somebody does something on my behalf without asking, I sure the hell am going to do *something*.
Their involvement options were along a spectrum and they chose the most agressive one. Hire a consultant and "take over" the lead.
They chose none of the other options between "watch with interest" and "help a little.
Except the language was nothing but helpful or agnostic to NAR or TRA. The best strategy would have been to sit down, shut up, hang on, and wait till action was called for by the ppoint man: Enzi.
Jerry
But saying that is like telling NAR or TRA that ATF permits are not required for rocket motors (which the law clearly states) or that 62.5g is a figure for access to MINORS and it has no place in either a safety code or a NFPA code for adults. Or that, oh, I don't know, that if you subscribe to a magazine for 9 issues a year for 5 years you should get
45 issues, not 20 and an offer to "kiss my ass", or that a motor certificaton is falid for three years, is renewable by submittinbg new samples and that the grace period is 3 years.They cannot understand or follow those simple rules either.
Jerry I am tired of you saying this:
But saying that is like telling NAR or TRA that ATF permits are not required for rocket motors (which the law clearly states) or that 62.5g is a figure for access to MINORS and it has no place in either a safety code or a NFPA code for adults. Or that, oh, I don't know, that if you subscribe to a magazine for 9 issues a year for 5 years you should get
45 issues, not 20 and an offer to "kiss my ass", or that a motor certificaton is falid for three years, is renewable by submittinbg new samples and that the grace period is 3 years.THE ATF defines the LAW. PERIOD. they ENFORECE it therfore THEY DEFINE IT.
UNTIL such a time as a court or congress says otherwise IE someone with a bigger stick.
PERIOD
Chris Taylor
Think about how the original "Safe Explosives Act" got passed (after it seemed to have died in committee)...
-dave w
Classic ignorance. I thought his point rather obvious. Neither NAR, TRA or ARSA are going to announce strategy at this point, nor should we expect them to.
Joel. phx
And I for one would like to see the 'compromise' the NAR statement talked about, but I'm not foolish enough to believe it will be released until it is thrust upon us.
Hmmm, attach it to the next bill sponsored by Schumer & Lautenberg...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Now yer talkin'! :)
-dave w
my posts in criticism of John Kyte and TRA/NAR are by my previous handle "izzy", on the "NAR BoD declines Wickman leadership in legislative action" thread, as follows:
2003-08-30 00:40:00 PST 2003-08-29 18:59:40 PST 2003-08-29 18:28:29 PST 2003-08-29 08:06:23 PST 2003-08-28 06:45:32 PST 2003-08-28 06:23:59 PST 2003-08-27 06:00:16 PST 2003-08-26 14:16:26 PST 2003-08-26 08:01:59 PSTI have yet to see a substantive response to the question, which I had clarified several times.
In the 2003-08-27 06:00:16 PST post, made reference to a confidential source
"As I was not with John Kyte in those staffer meetings and so can [not] substantively state that he offered or supported the 0.9 lb limit, there is evidence of his participation to that effect in a private venue which confidentiality I am not at liberty to breach."
The venue to which I refered was not TRA listServ.
I have no explanation as to why I stopped recieving TRA listServ messages. I attempted to have my subscribed mailbox changed, and had no response. I sent multiple emails to David Wilkins CC: the list administrator and have had no response. I sent a new subscription request with my active TRA membership number and have had no response.
No acknowledgement, explanation, or response of any kind. I am left to presume that my list membership has been revoked.
[ BTW, in the CompuServe forum prior to its closing, Bruce Kelly invited me to leave TRA offering to refund my membership dues from his own pocket. I said then, as I still maintain, that vocal disappointment with TRA BoD actions is not inconsistent with TRA membership. ]I would be interested in any information gained from a listServ member following Jerry's suggestion to raise the question of my status on the TRA listServ (publicly), and see what ensues.
I'm sure there is a rational explanation for my expulsion other than my criticism of TRA BoD actions vis a vis the Legislative Remedy.
- iz
Sounds like my attempt to join ARSA.
No soup for you!
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:
I didn't find out why my motors were decertified till almost a year later. Well the first story of 4-5 since.
I wonder if David is "intercepting live" any such attempted messages? He does seem like that much of a control freak to me.
Jerry
GFL :)
I believe when you emailed and expressed interest in ARSA you were "joined". I believe you have been receiving emailed updates once in a while. Not bad for free.
Someone also posted a more extensive tome on what to expect and not expect of ARSA, and I will let that far more complete tome say it for me.
You gotta admit the association posturing, politicking, and personality bashing is a soap opera supreme.
It not like these folks pay the money, get the check, deposit the check, send annual statement. Done.
No they have to spend months "crating lots of new rules". Get creative :) If self destructive to a horriffic degree.
Jerry
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