on TRA disclosure

related to my previous discussion on membership requirements for Tripoli certification, someone posed the challenge that I find a license or certification process that did not require renewal or "maintenance" feess

in response to that challenge, and also to acknowledge a request I made to Tripoli HQ for BoD minutes which was rebuffed, I did find an interesting contrast with another non-profit amateur/hobby organization as follows:

American Radio Relay League, Inc (ARRL)

here the "certification" involves a neglible fee for testing, membership is NOT required to obtain or maintain a license, and the license itself is free (ARRL VEC-coordinated Amateur Radio test sessions fee is $12, the Amateur License is exempt from FCC fees)

note also that organization "disclosures" are freely available online to the general public. For example:

Annual Reports

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Board and Committee Reports (including minutes)
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Regulatory Reports
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to contrast that with Tripoli

"certification" requires continuous membership at $70 the first year and $60 all subsequent years indefinitely

organization "disclosures" are limited to annual board minutes and reports only, available only to members by way of the Tripoli Report, but only for years of your membership. Prior years minutes are available only if the BoD deems the stated purpose "proper", and only then at the organizations headquarters in Orem, Utah during regular business hours, and photocopying is prohibited.

[ see the TRA HQ rebuff of my request at
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this, despite the "Revised Model Nonprofit Corporation Act" stating that

- the following records must be made available to members

Section 16.01. Corporate Records

(e) A corporation shall keep a copy of the following records at its principal office:

(1) its articles or restated articles of incorporation and all amendments to them currently in effect; (2) its bylaws or restated bylaws and all amendments to them currently in effect; (3) resolutions adopted by its board of directors relating to the characteristics, qualifications, rights, limitations and obligations of members or any class or category of members; (4) the minutes of all meetings of members and records of all actions approved by the members for the past three years; (5) all written communications to members generally within the past three years, including the financial statements furnished for the past three years under section 16.20; (6) a list of the names and business or home addresses of its current directors and officers; and (7) its most recent annual report delivered to the secretary of state under section 16.22.

- that the members are entitled to make copies of these materials

Section 16.02. Inspection of Records by Members.

(a) Subject to subsection (e) and section 16.03(c), a member is entitled to inspect and copy, at a reasonable time and location specified by the corporation, any of the records of the corporation described in section

16.01(e) if the member gives the corporation written notice or a written demand at least five business days before the date on which the member wishes to inspect and copy.

- that reasonable requests for photographic copies should be provided at reasonable cost

Section 16.03. Scope of Inspection Rights.

(b) The right to copy records under section 16.02 includes, if reasonable, the right to receive copies made by photographic, xerographic, or other means. (c) The corporation may impose a reasonable charge, covering the costs of labor and material, for copies of any documents provided to the member. The charge may not exceed the estimated cost of production or reproduction of the records.

- not that determination of what constitutes "reasonable" does NOT include the following

Section 16.02. Inspection of Records by Members (c)

(1) the member's demand is made in good faith and for a proper purpose; (2) the member describes with reasonable particularity the purpose and the records the member desires to inspect; and (3) the records are directly connected with this purpose.

which conditions do NOT apply to materials NOT found in Section 16.01. Corporate Records (e), above

[ also see Section 16.04. Court-Ordered Inspection ]

references:

Subchapter A. Records

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Revised Model Nonprofit Corporation Act (1987)

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- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
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1) The license is issued by the FCC and not the ARRL. 2) The license is valid for only 10 years. (I have one. KC5WSV) 3) The rules are in fact federal law and not from the ARRL.

Comparing TRA/NAR to the ARRL is like comparing apples to rocks.

Reply to
David Schultz

dude you need to get some pussy.

Reply to
Shot Locker

Absolutely. I have an FCC amateur radio license too, KC9FAC. I am not a member of ARRL (although I am considering it). Although I do not have exact figures available, something like less than 1/3 of licensed radio amateurs belong to ARRL.

The rules are under 47 CFR Part 97.

The only way a comparison would be valid to rocketry is if you were certified directly by a government agency, say BATFE. Membership in NAR/TRA would be optional.

Reply to
Ed

yes, and the FCC charges nothing. And ARRL charges a neglible amount for the administering the test

yes, and renews for no cost (at the present time)

yes, and the ARRL does not attempt to impose conditions in excess of federal law. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of Tripoli.

no, it is not

TRA/NAR impose conditions in excess of regulation, conditions which have associated costs. ARRL does not.

TRA refuses to disclose material from the corporate record without the uncertain 'deeming' of proper purpose, and uses access at Orem, Utah as a disincentive, and even then does not allow photocopying. ARRL provids the material freely to the general public.

the latter TRA "policy" in complete contrast to the Revised Model Nonprofit Corporations Act, which requires that the material be made available for photocopying, and provides for the request for inspection to be satisfied with the organization providing the copies at reasonable cost.

clearly Tripoli is using the letter of Alaskan Statutes to prevent access to materials as straightforward as board minutes. This, from a

501(c)3, which ostensibly functions as a public trust.

what infromation contained in the minutes could be so injurious if disclosed as to elicit such behavior, I wonder

I find TRA's position extremely suspicious, especially since I offered in advance to defray all reasonable costs associated with photocopying

(BTW, financial disclosures can be obtained directly from the IRS at very reasonable cost - so a comparable policy of 'inspection at HQ upon approval of reasons, but with copying prohibited' is moot. In fact, by making comprehensive requests for information from the IRS with the stated reason of "to establish/rule out impropriety" could very well raise an eyebrow. I'm sure that it would be no inconvenience to them whatsoever to send an auditor to Orem for a little look-see if they are so inclined.)

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

I should add that tests used to be given directly by the FCC, but in order to reduce their workload, the FCC allows the ARRL to give the tests through the VE program. The tests themselves, as well as the other paperwork you fill out, are all from the FCC, not the ARRL.

Reply to
Ed

Another reason this is true is because TRA is like a poorly run mom & pop grocery store, NAR is like a well run mom & pop grocery, and the ARRL in comparison is like a huge supermarket. And they can deliver their magazine on time, and have done so for 75 years. I also belong to the EAA, and that is a prime example of a well-run organization.

Reply to
Ed

No, they do NOT. But if you prefer ARRL over TRA, you're more than welcome to stick with them. An amateur radio club would be a more appropriate choice for you anyway since you are not even engaged in high power rocketry and refused to be certified.

So you're saying their actions are in accordance with the statutes under which TRA was incorporated, right?

BTW, if you're weren't a clueless Johnny Come Lately you would have known that TRA has already been audited by the IRS, which found no problems.

So go get someone with a crowbar to pry your nose out of Jerry's backside, and go do something constructive with your life if that's even possible.

Reply to
RayDunakin

utterly contemptible.

Reply to
NaCl

Take up a collection & get him an inflatable girl friend. 8-)

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

federal law.

this is incorrect. the ARRL has supplied the FCC with the Band Plans from day one and any lobbying to change them comes from the ARRL. whether to make the band plans less restrictive or more restrictive will have major input from the committies at ARRL. So they help MAKE federal law.

40 meters really needs a band plan change so I can talk to europe without having to do split, since europe talks right in the US CW only part of the band. They are working on changing this soon.

Other start up Ham orgs have tried to get voices in the Amateur communitiy and run VE programs etc. They have not been very successful.

Art

K8XG

Reply to
ArtU

Good point. But I thought band plans were coordinated by the IARU, not the FCC per se.

Reply to
Ed

snippage

Ish, you have my sympathy, and I agree that TRA is a tough nut to crack, but the "Revised Model Nonprofit Corporation Act" page also clearly states that:

"IMPORTANT NOTE Not all states' nonprofit corporation statutes were derived from this Model, and those states that did adopt the Model invariably have altered it more or less."

...Which apparently applies to Alaska. So unless you can find language in the Alaska nonprofit statutes that supports your request, isn't TRA acting within their 'rights'?

GC

Reply to
Gary A. Crowell Sr.

I believe that the Alaskan statutes they cited were in fact based on the Revised Nonprofit Corporations Act [RNCA]. It will be up to Alaska's Attorney General Gregg Renkes to determine to what degree the RNCA applies to Alaska nonprofit corporations

in the meantime, the simple fact that Tripoli chooses to hide the minutes behind the Alaskan statute reinforces any speculation that there is content in those minutes that they would not like to see generally known

remember, I did not request "sensitive" financial information, or "confidential" membership information. I asked for minutes and board resolutions that have been said to have been published in the Tripolitan / Tripoli Reports for distribution to the membership. It is only the fact that I was not a member during the period in question that has apparently made these minutes inaccessible from a practical point of view (flying to Orem, staying in a hotel, and being limited to taking notes - no photocopying)

given that Tripoli is a non-profit operating ostensibly in the public trust, I fail to see the justification for impeding my or any members access to the material (remember that I offered to cover any reasonable costs for reproduction).

in fact, I think they should bring all the requested material to the LDRS in Geneseo (and any subsequent LDRS) for "inspection" by any member who wishes to do so

but be that as it may, I will not be dissuaded by their obstruction. There is always a recourse when one is tenacious.

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Naw, it's just common sense. When some jerk's trying to rape you, it's best to put up a struggle rather than cooperate.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Do you mean to say it's fine for any organization to not make meeting minutes available to the membership?

Joel. phx

Reply to
Lab1

The non-profit status itself is a FEDERAL jurisdiction and those regs should be used for info access.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

That's called a cover-up. Ask Martha Stewart about that, and she was only "suspected" of it. The only "evidence" of it is a jailhouse witness who is testifying as part of a plea deal.

I have long stories about plea deals.

The DA's in this country have the power and authority to convict their targets almost without any restriction.

Jerry

Welcome to AmeriKa.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

But in this case "the roping" is by a member who simply wants to change the bad practices and policies so TRA can be a reliable honorable organization for the first time in its existence. That is NOT a malicious intent.

And despite the fears of the "bad eggs" (like Kelly, Rogers, Good, Embry), that they could be liable for something or other, the course to clear involves identifying and correcting themistakes.

The ONLY thing that is benefitted by a cover-up is the furtherance of the bad eggs and their policies and their egos.

That is bad for everybody all the time.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Actually it's a pretty good comparison. let NAR/TRA handle the testing and certification of HPR fliers, and keep the JBGTs busy protecting us form terrorists and abusive government agents.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

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