NAR or TRA?

I'm new to the rocketry hobby and pretty geeked about it. Of course, I built and flew a million Estes kits as a kid in the 70's but I never knew it
went beyond that until the late 90's when I read something about high power rocketry. So I searched out the vendors and ordered a LOC IV in 1999 and built it but had nowhere to launch it because I thought that only happened out west in the desert.
Then last month I found (random surfing) there were three clubs within an hour or two of me (Toledo) and I've been to two launches since. Rock on!! What strikes me most is how helpful everyone is to newcomers. Very cool (big thanks to Gary Dickinson, Jay and Lee Barry, Mark Palmer and the guy at Commonwealth Displays). My only regret is that I wish I would have found out about this earlier in the year so that I would have had time work on domestic policy agendas and re-route the family 4th of July vacation to Genesco!
Anyway, I'm sure this question has been asked here many times but...I want to join NAR or TRA for all of the various benefits but mostly in anticipation of an L1 cert. I know there's all kinds of reciprocity between them, but what are the pros and cons of each? Short of any clear cut rational answer, I'm kind of liking the name "Tripoli".
Mark Bostleman snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:23 -0400, "Mark Bostleman"

Both organizations support high power rocketry quite well, and there is reciprocity regarding motor and user certifications, so, in practice, there's not much difference. Some clubs are only NAR sections and not TRA prefectures, or vice versa, while others are both. Check to see what your local clubs are.
NAR is a bit cheaper to join, and membership includes a subscription to Sport Rocketry, which is a very nice (and regularly published) magazine covering most aspects of the hobby, from model to high power, and including contests such as NARAM (the NAR Annual Meet). Personally, I'm a NAR member.
Tripoli is a bit more costly to join, and does not (by default) include a magazine subscription -- you have to pay extra for it. Tripoli's magazine (High Power Rocketry) has not met its publishing goals (in terms of shipping the promised numbers of issues each year) in any of the last 6 or 7 years, at least, from what I have heard. Personally, I would be wary of subscribing to that particular magazine until they have a track record of a year or two of meeting their commitments under their belts.
Tripoli does support some non-commercial motor-making under the auspices of the Tripoli "EX" (for EXperimental, one assumes) program. NAR does not. However, NAR sponsors model rocket contest flying, which Tripoli does not. So, there are a few minor differences.
All in all, both are good organizations, with equal support for flying commercial high power motors. The user certification programs are nearly identical, and are reciprocal.
- Rick "Pick a (membership) card, any card" Dickinson
--
"Imagine standing at a street corner and spitting on people to
get their attention, then trying to sell them something.
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AAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Shock wrote: << 4. The TRA is basically HPR ONLY.. the NAR encompasses the full spectrum of rocketry: Low power-Mid-Power and High Power rocketry....>>
For the record, low and mid power rockets are welcome at the vast majority of TRA launches. The only exception would be if some local club discouraged modrocs at their launches. I've heard second hand reports of this happening, but it's rare.
<<5. The TRA will kick you out if they don't like your opinion... >>
Only a few folks were ever expelled from TRA, none recently and none for merely having an opinion. Heck, even Iz wasn't booted out.
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(RayDunakin) writes:

I've been to TRA launches that had a published "F minimum"...

Then how do you explain my expulsion? I was kicked out for expressing my opinions that were counter to the management. Dissent. And while you state that even Iz wasn't kicked out for doing so, it *WAS* discussed, so things aren't yet proper in TRA.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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On 22 Jun 2004 12:24:25 -0600, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

You are one of the elite few.

That isn't being done any more. As you said, Iz wasn't thrown out.

At the time, I got the word directly from Iz. He said Bruce Kelly tried to entice him into quitting IIRC, he offered to refund twice his membership fee. There was never any consideration by the BoD to throw him out. On RMR, I suggested that Iz should be thrown out becuase he violated one of the rules that pertains to members intentionally trying to harm the organization. BoD members were underwhelmed by this suggestion. Those are the facts. I do not agree with you.
When are you going to submit a request to the BoD for reinstatement?
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I knew that. I just wanted to help Bob &Jerry's relationship by letting them share their hate for the common enemy.
wrote:

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As soon as they throw out the lyers and crooks.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Bob K. wrote: << As soon as they throw out the lyers and crooks. >>
They threw out Jerry years ago. ;)
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Which I will continut to do as long as TRA management continues to keep its head burried in the sand, and pretend that everything always has been perfect. As soon as the TRA BOD takes action against those that have actually harmed the organization and it's members, I'll resubmit a membership application.
Or they could just process the renewal I sent in that they refused to allow.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Bob K. wrote: << Then how do you explain my expulsion? I was kicked out for expressing my opinions that were counter to the management. Dissent.>>
There had to be more to it than that, because lots of folks have expressed dissent with TRA, and continue to do so, without getting booted.
<<And while you state that even Iz wasn't kicked out for doing so, it *WAS* discussed, so things aren't yet proper in TRA.>>
Iz _deserved_ to be kicked out, not for "dissenting" but for his actively attempting to harm the organization.
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RayDunakin wrote:

I see this accusation of "attempt to harm" made a lot. I don't think it has substance. I don't think anything he wanted for TRA would not have been an improvement.
-dave w
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Point.
It would have harmed the status quo and the entrenched fraudmasters.
That and TRA is one and the same, isn't it?
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Big Fine wrote: << It would have harmed the status quo and the entrenched fraudmasters. >>
This had nothing to do with you. To quote the judge, "Sit down and shut up."
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

Liar
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Dave W. wrote: << I see this accusation of "attempt to harm" made a lot. I don't think it has substance. I don't think anything he wanted for TRA would not have been an improvement. >>
He threatened to have TRA's non-profit status revoked and the corporation dissolved. That's about as harmful as you can get, but I suppose to a TRA-hater such as yourself it must seem like a "good thing".
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I even find that extreme....... shockie B)

has
TRA-hater
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

Selective enforcement.
The dissent is on target and EFFECTIVE.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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(RayDunakin) writes:

Ask someone on the BOD for a copy of my expulsion letter. Kelly sent it (along with a copy of my personal check) to a bunch of folks, including at least one person who has never been a member of TRA.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

It was up for vote in typical railroad fashion and ONE board member put his foot down and promised to resign if the vote was affirmative.
FACT.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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