Re: Propellant Breakthroughs?

this looks like an area that needs to be looked at and changed at the next revision of NFPA 1127..... engineering data tests now for a minimum psi would be helpful ...

shockie B)

I thought CNC time in say the Czech Republic was almost dirt cheap? perhaps they should be mass produced in eastern europe and shipped back?

shockie B)

They are already being manufactured and sold.

the long lag time to get certified even if

Really? I didn't know that. Why would they require that for a hybrid? What if the manufacturer were European?

The first issue is where you stand with licensing the design from Rene and whether a similar design would infringe on that work even though he indicates his work was based on others. "The idea for a disposable nitrous cylinder hybrid motor is not new. Dave Oback and Bill Colburn did some research back around 1993 on this type of motor. Had I known of their research, I could have gotten to this point a lot sooner."

Then you have manufacturing and whatever shipping issues that might arise. Does everything have to be run buy DOT like cardboard tubes, or just when you start getting 'interesting'. What is the consistency in those little cylinders? Are you able to recommend a source, or supply everything yourself to ensure quality {for certification}. Then you might need to meet more DOT standards.

Shall we even go into insurance?

Current barebones systems are $75-$85USD. Let's say you get that down a bit and manage $50/unit and include parts for 2 launches. We're talking $25/flight for a 24mm motor!! You have a huge PR job to get that initial hit down the consumer's throat before you toss in the nasty, "you need electronics for every launch" caveat.

How will you ignite your motor?

Provided you're past all that, I don't think it would take much to certify your motor,...

1) Hybrids still require a pre-heat. Typically a slug of APCP is used to fire the motor. 2) The TRA policy requires an "LEMP" and doesn't specifically exempt non-explosive propellant.

Joel. phx

Mine was about $20K.

Tom

Absolutely!

I really like the cart! Been using a welders cart with 5" wheels... that one looks perfect!

Gonna have to get me one!!!

Thanks Joe!

No, no... don't stop, please continue!!! ;)

Sounds like you got a deal. The starting price for the used ones I've seen is around 60k untooled (of course).

I'm not talking about making these myself, there are already two manufacturers, making micro hybrids under license from Gene. As you can see from the above links.

Do you throw away your RMS casing and closure after two flights? Obviously, the micro hybrid is reusable and the costs /flight are minimal.

It seems as though you are trying to say that they can't easily be sold, because there's no market? Fact is people are already buying them, they just can't fly them at organised launches (in the US).

With an igniter - that's how the caveman unit works.

Past what? You realise that these are already being sold by Art Applewhite? I'm just asking what it would take to get the NAR/TRA certified?

The caveman version of the microhybrid doesn't.

Don't you find that odd? Why would you need a "Low Explosive Manufacturers Permit" for a microhybrid?

and LOC casings are approved. no other third party casings are approved for use with AT reloads.

I thought CTI has reloads for aerotech hardware and cases for At reloads ?

CAR certified., 75, 98mm however. the big toys

There is also one other issue. Aren't thoes tanks the micro hybrid uses made of steel? That would make 1/2 the motor steel. Thats a No No.

The manufacturer would submit them to the NAR/TRA certification bodies with appropriate paperwork and fee(s). If it's a curiosity question, see the ""extract"" of the rules are here:

If you're trying to convince the manufacturer to go further, have them contact Mark or Paul for TRA. don't see who you would contact for NAR, email Bunny.

As Robert pointed out you would likely have to prove that the bottle will not/could not be thrown more than 10 or 20 feet per 1122.

But if you include that igniter with your reloads, that's another issue.

Odd? No, have you read rmr very long? I suspect if the manufacturer is truly interested in submitting the motors, an LEMP will not be an issue.

Joel. phx

It was more of an idle thought really. I think both the existing manufacturers are doing this as a sideline rather than as a fully-fledged business.

Yes, quite a long time ;-) Both the current manufacturers are in Europe, though. They wouldn't be able to get a LEMP, would they?

Hmmm don't know what they are made from.

In the currently manufactured units the tank is enclosed inside an aluminium casing, which forms the bulk of the motor. Is it the proportion of steel, or the use of steel per se, that is the problem?

Well, you're not going to invest in a small hybrid to make 2 flights. Maybe a couple dozen flights a year for several years. That gets the fixed cost down to $1 per flight.

And $75-85 is only about 2-3 times the cost of an AeroTech RMS 24/40. After that the cost per flight is much less than an APCP reload. I've already invested in 2 of the RMS 24/40 casings. And 2 of the 29/120 and 2 sets of

29/180-240...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I've seen many an AT clone casing that lacked some of the safety features designed into the original casings. It's not just a matter of threading the tube and closures so that they screw together...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Go grab one of your AT casings and look again, a bit more carefully this time...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

You can get pretty nice ones brand new for under $60K. I've seen used, capable of running 4" bar, starting in the mid $40's.

Tom

What safety features? I've seen genuine casings split wide open many times. The biggest safety factor is the material.

Tom