Re: Propellant Breakthroughs?

Is there an echo in this room?

DOT approved cylinders.

How does that apply to AT style hybrids where they cylinder is not filled at the pad?

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Given that the casing is covered by a U.S. patent (I don't remember the patent number, but a search for Rosenfeld at uspto.gov should turn up the relevant patents), your buddy was lucky that they merely said "desist". Had he continued to flagrantly violate the patent by making unlicensed casings, Aerotech would have had strong legal grounds for an infringement suit.

It's one thing to spin up a case or two for experimental purposes which happens to be compatible/identical with a well-known-vendors hardware, and it's quite another to stamp out a few hundred and sell them commercially. Even making a single case *for your own use* is technically in violation of the patent (unlike copyrights, patents have no "fair use" provision).

Dr. Rocket casings are made under a license granted by Aerotech, and in fact Aerotech by Aerotech and Aerotech by Dr. Rocket are both made in the same shop, AFAIK.

I stand by my earlier comments. Commercial casing prices are not unreasonable, given the extreme-niche market they serve, and the lack of offshore mass-production. Anyone who has run a manufacturing business in a market like this understands that very few opportunities exist for yachting vacations in the Mediteranean as a result of profits from sale of these things. If it weren't for commercial contracts, I doubt that even the CTIs of the world would stick around very long in this market.

I want to personally thank the people who stayed on topic here and gave some good thought processes to the pros and cons of a small hybrid, ie a model rocket size hybrid system....very interesting thread and it shows me that it could be done....

I especially liked the idea of some kind of "pre-canned" solution ......I think it may be just an engineering problem where much thought hasn't been given yet die to their smaller sizes....everybody upto know have been thinking BIG..... and of course Safety is paramount... thanks for the great conversation...I just lurked and read cause I really didn't know what barriers they may be..

shockie B)

Sounds like an "all solid" hybrid may be timely. ;-)

Anthony J. Cesaroni President/CEO Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace

887-2370 x222 Toronto (410) 571-8292 Annapolis

I think Wickman's got an Oxygen Gel \ Magnisium Powder rocket motor in the works... would that count? ;)

That would be fine for amateur stuff, but a home made casing from someone other than approved vendor would not be NAR or TRA certified. AT, DrRocket, and LOC casings are approved. no other third party casings are approved for use with AT reloads.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

They would also not be allowed at any NAR or TRA launch.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

AT hardware in particular, as the end closures involve quite a bit of work.

I agree, it's been very interesting and enlightening.

I like that idea too. The closest that I've heard of is the micro-hybrids that use NO2 cartridges; and the AT hybrids which (IIRC) could be filled even before going to the launch.

"Sneaky Pete"

:)

Absolutely! Even fillin' up a buddies rocket a time or two isn't a problem anymore!

Yup... I checked that when you mentioned it last year... worked Great... no problem at all!

Interesting... I'd be very curious. Those things are notoriously low effeciency. (Espcially providing the Car Battery option).

Because of your suggestion (about the Car Battery being able to hook directly up to the MRLS), I've looked into, and purchased on of those 'Portable Battery Jumper Systems'... they've got pre-attached battery jumper cables, a cigarette lighter expansion... a high intensity lite... all molded into one plastic case with handle. There about $80 bucks at WalMart or Sams.

We've used it on the RTLS-M2 (as you suggested above), but even better... it can run our TDS370 scope (with an DC-AC converter) for over 45 minutes during static testing of Hybrids. (No more 100ft extension cords going across the creek to the static test bed). ;)

Very handy thing to have around. It'll run a laptop... even used it once to jump a car. ;)

"Fastest" filling isn't always the best thing with a Hybrid... but you already know that.

Any idea what the 'bottom line' will be? I'm interested...

(Or at least a post here\email me when you make the announcement?)

Apologies: Not Sneaky Pete.

Google Search "NOS Sneeky Pete"

(Damned 'hooked on phonics) ;)

micro-hybrids

Joel. phx

Wish I'd known they had 'em with Air Compressors! That'd come in handy!!!

I've got more the; Hmmm... HarborFreight... I'll have to peruse their site a bit.

Thanks!

Well hows about this, one of those plus these:

?itemnumber=35225 of a nice Hypertek crash cart if you ask me.....

Joel. phx (HF junkie)

Don't get me started on rocket tools,... mmmmmm toooooolss.

For 38mm, about 40 seconds on a CNC lathe.

Tom

Doug et al;

I would think that the key to keeping the cost down for small hybrids is to eliminate the remote fill systems and either use the AT style prefilled tank, or the one shot NOX cartridges.

If there were an NAR, TRA, or CAR certified micro hybrid kit like the Caldera design, I'd buy one today. The only thing that's held me back is the lack of certification, which means I've got no place I can fly one.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!