Re: Senate Report for September 15, 2003

>NAR/TRA met this week with the Chief of Staff and Chief Counsel to >Senator Lautenburg. While the meeting was cordial, it was clear that >there is little, if any, likelihood of persuading Sen. Lautenburg to >remove his hold. His concerns are not necessarily with APCP being used >to make a bomb, or with a terrorist actually delivering a payload with >an amateur rocket, but with the potential "mayhem" that such a person >could cause by misusing an amateur rocket or rocket propellant. A >specific example given was a person launching two or three large >amateur rockets in close proximity to Newark International Airport >during a busy flight schedule, the theory being that such an act would >cause widespread panic. >

If he truly believes this idea it is proof New Jersey has not spent enough on education in their state.......my guess is he doesn't and is grabbing at straws with far fetched ideas, though impractical. Chicken Little is alive in New Jersey and looking the wrong direction.

Arguments about the low probability of such >an event, its actual impact, the fact that such an act is already >illegal, etc., were not persuasive. We were told that the mere >potential for such an act warrants "heavy regulation regardless of the >burden imposed" on individuals. >

This last statement is proof the Senator is incompetant to legistlate properly.

> >Several calls to Sen. Schumer's office have not produced a return call >or meeting, but we have nonetheless gone to the Senator's office to >provide them with a direct rebuttal to the ATF "views" letter sent to >Sen. Hatch in June. >

When I'm absolutely wrong and the person who proved me wrong comes knocking, I hate to open the door too.

Chuck

Reply to
Chuck Rudy
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Since that particular scenario could easily happen with a rocket using a cluster of MODEL ROCKET motors, that scenario has no relation at all to higher power rockets.

That is unconstitutional and his works should be used to bring charges of treason, or malicious legislation or something that matters.

Oh, great. Your efforts in the Senate produced no fruit, in fact stirred the pot to bring forward senators dipstick and dumbship and you are now focused on the house, with your names mentioned but nowhere to be seen the mane of the motivating person behind the good bill with a potentially successful strategy of stealth, you outed him on (presumably for not following your timeline of litigation then legislation).

Tell the judge the legislation is dead and to rule already.

What about SB724 in full, NOT HK724 (DD724) amended in any way at all. Or better yet, stop it, save the money, and use it for litigation.

That is why you should NOT introduce it. We have a blanket exemption right now. 27 CFR 555.141-a-8.

STOP or I will punish you for slearly harming your own cause and the rights of rocketeers nationwide.

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

BS. Where does it say that?

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

And what if you are colossally wrong? And you add regulation to US Law that cannot be reversed, ever?

And you have been colossally wrong at every stage along this path so we can impute the future. You are about to embark on a path of HUGE disaster at GREAT COST and all forseeable and warned against. BY ME>

The ultimate "I told you so", I would be far happier refraining from thank you.

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

Because everybode else learned fronm your past mistakes and acted accordingly and STOPPED. But not you! Oh no, the mighty and powerful oz (NAR President, furry bunny), you can go through life like a bull in a china shop and claim, however "inartfully" that you are doiung it for the members. NO!! You are harming members grandly and predictably. Can you even read this very legislative report? Roadblocks everywhere you turn!

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

So you hang on to this hope in light of the zero support from both house and senate leaders and the outright attack in both houses?

Give me a break. Can you even read? Stop being President Moron and STOP for god's sake.

Please.

So STOP. Can't you read the writing on the wall? You have lost in advance. Stop feeding them ammunition!!

Jerry

You were a crappy contest board chairman and you are a turbo-crappy President.

** "A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures." - Daniel Webster **

"Don't argue with a moron; he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience". - Mark Simpson

You know what? I personally know poeple who have backed up many of your claims of your historical "contributions" to high power. People I respect (ergo, who have lives). - Gene Costanza

"Some people have kinky dominance-and-submission fantasies. Mine is to tie up a politician and force it to do something reasonable but politically unpopular."

- David Weinshenker

"I mean, old Mr. Prez is stumbling around like a drunk sailor - violating the bylaws, folks civil rights, Federal and State Law. You guys might ought to rein him in, seems to me." - John Cato

"What, you mean you haven't noticed that there's now such a tangled morass of Federal, state, and local laws that you can be arrested for practically >anything< if someone wants you? Land of the Free has become Land of the Fee -- legal type, that is. The fact that this is still the best place on Earth to live just makes me depressed..." - Donald Qualls, man of insight

"Aerotech should change it's ads from 'the future of HPR is solidifying...' to 'the future of HPR is vaporizing...' " - Bob Kaplow

"As far as I can tell, you just assume the "bashers" are in the wrong and the "ELECTED" officials are in the right. Blind Faith." - Bob Wiersbe

"It scares me every time this happens, but I would support Jerrys proposal." - Bob Kaplow

NAR on 555.141-a-8 and how it "listens and reacts" to them: "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil" - Socrates

On NAR's Legislative efforts and specialist: "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail." -Lotfi Zadeh

I assume you will ignore my post and if I email it to you will simply say, "Thank you for your input." So I am not going to waste my time. I am putting you on notice that your actions are harmful, neglegent, a violation of your fiduciary duty, and are actionable.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Well, the definition of "treason" would take a bit of stretching (especially since the government seems to presume itself to be the "white hats" rather than the "enemy") - I've heard of laws against "frivolous litigation" or "malicious prosecution" - is there one against "malicious legislation"?

I don't think Congress could pass _that_ under the constitution, since it would inherently be an "ex post facto law" as well as an example of "self-incrimination"...

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

More money per student in real terms is now spent on education than at any time in US history. It's not how much is being spent, it's what is being taught and what is not.

Reply to
Steven P. McNicoll

Most of that goes to teachers salaries, benefits, pensions. The only paycheck worker doing better on average than state employed teachers is state employed prison guards.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Has it been considered by NAR, TRA attorneys that the judge in our court case may be waiting to rule as long as there is pending action in Congress?

If we continue this route, it may take another five years. By then, there will be a handful of members, and the HPR hobby will be dead.

IMO, we should discontinue efforts in congress (for the time being) and encourage the judge to make a ruling. Unfortunately at this point, he may have been influenced by the negative response in congress and rule accordingly.

Mike Fisher

Reply to
Mfreptiles

You've missed the point. Throwing more money at education does not mean education will improve. We've seen the cost of education soar while the quality of education has plummeted.

Reply to
Steven P. McNicoll

Hey Jerry, congratulations on your near victory int NAR BOD elections. You did not officialy run, but the write in votes that you amassed were published in the August 1974 "The Model Rocketeer". You finished in fourth, for three positions, falling just 72 votes short of tying with newcommer JOhn Lyngdal, and vetran Trip Barber.

So are you suing or just venting?

Alan

Reply to
Alan Jones

Mark B. Bundick wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Of course, no one would ever do such a thing with a van or panel truck filled with sinster looking canisters?

And regulating the law abiding community is going to prevent someone from ignoring the regulations?

As I noted earlier, this isn't about actually being effective, it's about appearing to be doing something.

Oh, yeah, we don't want to make it easier for them... len.

Reply to
Leonard Fehskens

There are more terrorists and murderers in the BATF than in the entire hobby of sport rocketry.

There are more terrorists and murderers in congress than in the entire hobby of sport rocketry.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Time to round them up and charge them with treason...

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

Rare is the congresscritter, president, or federal judge that has not trampled the US Constitution.

Reply to
Steven P. McNicoll

Because an increasing share goes toward teachers salaries, benefits, pensions because we are paying unions, not for books, supplies, buildings, utilities and contraqct teachers willing and qualified to work at half the salary and fully 1/3 the total cost.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

There is only ONE thing a politician is scared by. The truth.

Just make numerous appearances on his local media outlets detailing his decisions and the reasons behind them. Let the people decide, starting with his financial bakers.

Jerry

I am available for personal appearances.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

That's a good one. And why had he not ruled in the 1/2 year prior to the legislation? Because Wickman was about talking to his buddy?

Joel. phx

Fly hybrids!

Reply to
Joel Corwith

Are those the ones that cook the books?

Reply to
Steve Humphrey

We don't know. Judges, especially Federal judges, do things in their own good time. We know that they are particularly sensitive to being repeatedly asked "When will their be a decision in our case?" Most of them will respond by putting your file at the bottom of the stack.

It ain't pretty. In fact, it's downright ugly. Unfortunately, it's reality.

MJ NAR Trustee

Reply to
Mark Johnson

I like that idea. Who has the Judge's addy?

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Reply to
moonglow

United States District Court for the District of cloumbia re case Civil 00-273 (RBW) [RBW is the judge]

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for the mailing address.

I suggest WE ask for "findings of fact" and ask for an expedited ruling so we can put the illegal facist ATF bahavior behind us.

Jerry

Friends of the court :)

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Are there any statistics on time to rule? Just wondering what average time of a judge's workload is and such.

Joel. phx

No, I don't think we should pester the dude (dudet) even if it didn't result in the case going to the bottom of the stack.

Reply to
Joel Corwith

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