ROL NEWS--RCS IERT "Advanced Propellant Formulation and Processing Course" Announced

RCS IERT "Advanced Propellant Formulation and Processing Course" Announced October 17, 2003 Web posted at: 12:40 PM EDT
Cedar City, UT ( ROL Newswire ) -- RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. is pleased to announce the inception of its RCS Institute of Experimental Rocket Technology (IERT) "Advanced Propellant Formulation and Processing Course". The course will be taught by Gary C. Rosenfield, president of RCS, founder of AeroTech, Inc. and co-inventor of the reloadable hobby rocket motor. Gary will personally instruct course participants in the most important and relevant information concerning composite propellant formulation and manufacture that he's learned in over 30 years of experimental, hobby and military/industrial rocketry experience.
This is not the typical "make it-take it" EX course. It is intended for the more experienced experimental rocket enthusiasts who want to raise their knowledge of propellant chemistry and manufacturing techniques to an entirely new level. A mixture of theoretical and practical instruction will be emphasized, and the information provided will have direct application to real-world experimental rocketry activities. The three-day seminar will be presented in both a lecture format at the course hotel and live demonstrations inside the RCS/AeroTech manufacturing facility. A complete and detailed tour of the facility will be included.
Participants must be at least 18 years of age, have read Terry McCreary's book "Experimental Composite Propellant", be NAR or Tripoli level 2 or 3 certified and U.S citizens. 100% cotton clothing must be worn when working in the propellant processing rooms. Participants must not be affiliated with commercial rocket propellant or rocket motor manufacturing enterprises.
Course participants will have an exclusive opportunity to purchase engineering drawing packages for specialized mixing and casting tooling, propellant machining equipment and an adjustable motor static test stand fixture, as well as premixes for popular brand-name propellant formulations. Graduates of the course will qualify for a 15% discount on all RCS rocket motor components and chemicals.
The course will be held on November 13 - 15, November 20 - 22, December 4 - 6 and December 11 - 13, 2003, and will be limited to three (3) to seven (7) participants each. Other dates will be announced at regular intervals. A detailed information sheet, registration form and participation contract for the course may be downloaded from the "Classes" page on the RCS website at http://www.rocketmotorparts.com . .
Source: RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
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BS and if it were worth the money to bother, the real prior artisans would make a filing with the patent office and invalidate his patents.
But it's not!

Curious. According to Gary and TRA I am not on that short list.
This one is interesting and futile. Because it sems about 5 minutes after someone takes the course they are "more qualified" to be commercial motor makers than before.

Proven safety record there! Bad one.

Scary business model there. And catocene too. Is there any limit at all to Gary's technology transfers when poor?
How can his "stockholders" tolerate this. It obviously is totally adverse to AeroTech's and ISP's interests.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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I'd take the course if a had more money and time. Sounds very interesting! Why the harsh comments, Jerry? You don't support a rocketeer who wants to make his own motors?
-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1

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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Hmmm... do you mean "sensitive" in the political sense ("information that Certain People would prefer not to have Certain Other People know about"), or in the engineering sense ("possibility of producing accidental explosions")?
-dave w
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Nope. In a more sinister sense.
"Proliferation threat".

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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It looks like I'm on the DQ list. I guess you were right, there are good reasons not to have a LEMP.

Great stuff, too bad it is so bloody expensive. Should be just the ticket for propellant used for end-burning monocopter motors.
John

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John Lyngdal wrote:

Oooh, a tech flamewar!
*makes popcorn and pulls up chair*
-dave w
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Monocopters Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Jerry
If something is $2000/kg AND banned by the mil sites AND on the state department watchlist, maybe you should not publicly mail order it.
Jerry

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Jerry Irvine wrote: [re: catocene]

Hmmm.... RCS is offering it at $70 / 50 grams - that's only $1400/kg. Bargain?
Since it's only used at less than 2% concentration in the propellant; that $70 worth would thus be enough for at least 2.5 kg of propellant, or about 5K N-sec (full L) at an Isp of ~200 sec (2KN-sec/kg), no? Doesn't sound _that_ "bloody expensive" for the amount of propellant involved...

I thought that only applied to exports?
(I'd be more nervous about the "adverse effect on propellant friction and impact sensitivity" than the State Department!)
OTOH, if the very thought of the stuff seems to be provoking a "scares me and I'm fearless" reaction from _Jerry_...
-dave w
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Since the rest of the ingredients cost about $30, it triples the cost of the propellant. I would call that expensive.
Tom
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Let me summarize this in a way that captures the "flavor" of my objection.
1. Gary R spent a decade running full page ads harassing the ATF over products they and the law knew were exempt, but Gary R alone did not. (poke in ATF eye with sharp stick)
Gary confused NAR and TRA and caused massive collateral damage in unneeded explosives lisences and regs assuming such.
2. Gary R has massive industrial accident.
3. Gary R selects to sell to the general public a material which is particularly high on the government hit list for multiple reasons:
a. It is an identified safety hazard as used by some military programs. Notably it is the first thing raised at many mil propellant meetings.
b. It is clearly export controlled and considerable effort has been employed to keep it out of public discourse (do a google and see for yourself.)
(yet another poke)
We are trying to get consumer and amateur rocketry relaxed on right when GCR is trying to provide as as strong a case as he can possiblty muster that we need some sort of regulation to control the elements we cannot control ourselves.
What is sad is we controlled our info and people just fine till one had a virtual monopoly and STILL had massive sales disruptions and as a result becomes so hard-up that he has to sell elements of the farm to survive. Normally controlled elements.
No size of motor or reload sale transfers the technology of how to make it. Those sales are and should remain exempt.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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A General ROL News release goes to the GENERAL public, as in 90% CONSUMERS and well under 10% EX. And is clearly international. And unrestricted or vetted.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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At http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/itar.html you can view the export restricted materials. Here's just a few that EX folks should be aware of, as catocene is only one of the many items regulated.
Metal fuels in particle sizes less than 60 micrometres whether spherical, atomized, spheroidal, flaked or ground, consisting of 99% or more of any of the following: Zirconium, boron, magnesium and alloys of these;
Ammonium perchlorate;
Hydroxy-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB); Tepanol" (HX-878), reaction product of tetraethylenepentamine, acrylonitrile and glycidol (see 121.12.(b)(11));
Catocene (see 121.12(b)(5));
N-butyl-ferrocene (see 121.12(b)(5));
Other ferrocene derivatives (see 121.12(b));
Superfine iron oxide with a specific surface area greater than 250 m sup 2 /g and an average particle size of 0.0003 micrometres or less
Basic copper salicylate; lead salicylate;
Lead stannate, lead maleate, lead citrate;
Triphenyl bismuth (TPB); Hydrogen peroxide of over 85 percent concentration; Fine grain recrystallized bulk graphites (with a bulk density of at least 1.72 g/cc measured at 15 degrees C), pyrolytic, or fibrous reinforced graphites useable for rocket nozzles and reentry vehicle;
Rocket motor cases, "interior lining", "insulation" and nozzles;
Any UN Class 1.3 solid propellant with a theoretical specific impulse greater than 230 seconds for non-halogenized, 250 seconds for non-metallized and 266 seconds for metallized compositions;
Solid or liquid propellant rocket engines, having a total impulse capacity of 1.1 x 10 N-sec (2.5 x 10 lb-sec) or greater;
Hybrid rocket motors and specially designed components;
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snipped-for-privacy@tek.com (John Lyngdal) wrote:

P O I N T
Jerry
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John Lyngdal wrote:

-snip remainder of list-
So even the makings for "garden variety" composite motors are considered "too good to let any o'them furr'n'rs get hold of'em" by the export control folks...
<MontyPython> "Nobody expects the United States State Department!" </MontyPython>
-dave w
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or tires.

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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That ITAR list is from 1993 and out of date. H202 for example is no longer on the USML and does not fall under State department jurisdiction. H202 export is controlled by the Commerce department now and some countries are exempt from permits.
Anthony J. Cesaroni President/CEO Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace http://www.cesaronitech.com / (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto (410) 571-8292 Annapolis

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I think there's a good market for this class. It looks to be right between a "make it take it" class and the U of Tennessee solids class. http://www.utsi.edu/coned/coursespdf/04fund-solid.pdf
Gary's is better suited for "H" to "N" hobby EX'ers who want to go home and start "rolling their own" motors with some shop safety.
However, I do think some of the participant requirements are pretty silly.
-Dan
wrote:

Dan Chandler Southern New England Association of Rocketry http://www.snear.org /
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Specifically, "Participants must not be affiliated with commercial rocket propellant or rocket motor manufacturing enterprises."
Kind of like asking professional train engineers not to attend an advanced course on model railroading.
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<< Specifically, "Participants must not be affiliated with commercial rocket propellant or rocket motor manufacturing enterprises." Kind of like asking professional train engineers not to attend an advanced course on model railroading. >>
More like, "I don't want to provide training to my competitors". Makes sense to me. Of course, today's EX hobbyist could be tomorrow's commercial manufacturer.
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