(way OT)

Up here in northern Vermont with the temp a balmy -35F(without wind chill!)
I managed the other day, to run myself out of heating oil. The oil company
was scheduled for delivery the next day but said they would be happy to
deliver and "emergency" 10 gallons for $75.00. I have a couple of 8 gal
cans so at midnight I set out to find some fuel. Now here is the
question(s); What can you safely use in an oil fired boiler? One person
said if it is a boiler and not a forced air or convection furnace, diesel
fuel, #2 fuel oil or kerosene will be fine. Another fellow said diesel
produces toxic fumes and should never be used in a oil burner. Someone else
said the same about kerosene. So who better to ask that a group of rocket
scientists. What is the difference between #2 fuel oil, #2 diesel fuel and
K1 kerosene? I do know they are not interchangeable for many applications
but in which would they be and why?
Thanks
Nakita
Reply to
Nakita
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Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Ah Vermont. Spent a year there. My house had Natural Gas forced air heat and central air conditioning (the previous owner was a commercial contruction foreman). I remember what -35F feels like... you don't stay out any longer than you need to. Here in Austin we're having typical winter weather: raining and 65F.
Nakita wrote:
> Up here in northern Vermont with the temp a balmy -35F(without wind chill!)
Reply to
Alex Mericas
From what I've been told by our local oil company #2 Fuel, #2 diesel, and K1 are funtionally the same. The difference is that #2 diesel contains a dye that proves that the user has paid the appropriate "road tax". There are also subtypes of #2 diesel also; at least around here, offroad, and onroad. Something to do with additives for reduced emissions.
I still wouldn't try something other than what's recommended by the burner without testing. Do you have the docs for the burner? If so, you may want to check them, as they'll let you know what it (fuelwise) can handle. I know our old one would allow #2 diesel...
FWIW..
tah
Reply to
hiltyt
#2 fuel oil and diesel fuel are identical, usually even come from the same tank. 'Non-highway' diesel fuel contains a red dye that marks it distinctly from highway-use fuel. The difference otherwise is only that 'non-highway' fuel does not include federal or state road tax. It is intended for heating fuel or agricultural equipment fuel.
K1 kerosene and #1 fuel oil are different names for the same thing. #1 is a lighter petroleum fraction - lower boiloff point, lower density. It's actually between #2 fuel oil and gasoline in most of its physical and chemical properties.
Diesel automobiles often are recommended to use #1 fuel oil during the winter, especially at extreme temps like you are currently experiencing. #2, even with anti-gel ingredients, turns to sludge at that cold a temp.
To come directly to the question: Oil fired boilers *probably* burn #2. If you can't find any heating oil, diesel fuel will work. It just costs more.
mj old farmboy who grew up with Diesel tractors and oil heat
Reply to
Mark Johnson
Don't take this personally but, if you're dumb enough to run out of oil when it's -35, Darwin says you should try Sunoco 260 in your furnace.
Reply to
Phil Stein
why would anyone take that comment personally?
applications
Reply to
NaCl
You know how sensitive some people are.
Reply to
Phil Stein
You like rubbing it in don't you ?
JD
Reply to
JDcluster
Actually I miss Vermont. Sometimes. Usually around July or August. I really miss the basement (unheard of in Texas) and the view of Mount Mansfield from my back yard. On the other hand, there is no difference between the "flying season" and the "building season" here. Except that building is usually done on weeknights and flying is usually done on weekends. :-)
I don't miss the political climate. (duck)
JDcluster wrote:
Reply to
Alex Mericas
Exactly. Differences are in boiling ranges and liquid density, so substituting can throw off your fuel/air ratio and make some smoke & CO (rich) or slightly less efficient heating if it leans out. You should be able to adjust the air flow to take care of smoke, though. An oil furnace doesn't care about octane or cetane number since you have a diffusion flame. Ditto for "additives". It's all liquid hydrocarbons. Gasoline will work too, but its flash point is low enough to worry about leaks, especially in the house, so I'd have to be desperate before I went there. Your biggest problem could be the sludge you probably sucked in when you went dry.
Brad Hitch
Reply to
Brad Hitch
K1 is perfectly safe. It's low sulfur and highly refined. It will be perfect in your furnace. A lot like given your dog bottled water. #2 diesel could be used too. In fact, with just a little adjusting of the air flow, #2 can be mixed with filtered motor oil and burned too. Been there, done that in Montana.
Reply to
Reece Talley
Hmmm... from Vermont to Austin... Must be an IBMer.
-Chr$
Reply to
Chr$
} } } >Up here in northern Vermont with the temp a balmy -35F(without wind chill!) } >I managed the other day, to run myself out of heating oil. The oil company } >was scheduled for delivery the next day but said they would be happy to } >deliver and "emergency" 10 gallons for $75.00. I have a couple of 8 gal } >cans so at midnight I set out to find some fuel. Now here is the } >question(s); What can you safely use in an oil fired boiler? One person } >said if it is a boiler and not a forced air or convection furnace, diesel } >fuel, #2 fuel oil or kerosene will be fine. Another fellow said diesel } >produces toxic fumes and should never be used in a oil burner. Someone else } >said the same about kerosene. So who better to ask that a group of rocket } >scientists. What is the difference between #2 fuel oil, #2 diesel fuel and } >K1 kerosene? I do know they are not interchangeable for many applications } >but in which would they be and why?
Speaking as an old POL sergeant, this:
} From what I've been told by our local oil company #2 Fuel, #2 diesel, } and K1 are funtionally the same. The difference is that #2 diesel } contains a dye that proves that the user has paid the appropriate } "road tax". There are also subtypes of #2 diesel also; at least } around here, offroad, and onroad. Something to do with additives for } reduced emissions.
is essentially correct.
K1 burns hotter. You can burn it in the same furnace, but you need different (ports? injectors? whatever they're called). Pretty much a cabeurator rebuild, for the furnace.
You can burn up to 50% K1 mixed with #2 in an emergency, but don't attempt to keep it up to the temp you'd prefer. Your furnace will need to cool off frequently, so keep the temp down to a minimum.
As noted elsewhere, you could be in trouble if you ran your tank all the way down. Sludge, rust and water accumulate in the bottom. If those got sucked in, they could plug your burner. Worse, that could make it blow up. Get your burner cleaned and adjusted first chance.
Reply to
Doktor DynaSoar
snipped-for-privacy@tda.com (Brad Hitch) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:
Unlike kerosene and fuel oil, gasoline vapors are explosive. I'd say that puitting gas in an oil furnace is likely to be deadly.
Reply to
David W.
The reason I said I'd need to be desperate to use gasoline in an oil furnace is that they often have leaky fittings and tube connections that could result in filling the room with gasoline vapor. The oil furnace burner itself wouldn't much care. I could change the nozzle and run propane into it too, for instance. It is an inherently stable diffusion flame. On purpose. The flame front resides at the stoichiometric surface in a diffusion flame, with fuel, N2 and combustion products on one side and air and combustion products on the other. About as safe as one can get. High volatility of the fuel just decreases the spray droplet lifetime and usually makes it easier to ignite. All operational aircraft gas turbines I am aware of burn in the diffusion flame mode for a number of reasons, and flame stability is a major one. Heck, JP-4/Jet-B is gasoline for gas turbines with diffusion flame burners. JP-8/Jet-A is more like kerosene. You can run them on heavy marine diesel as well (lower combustion efficiency and don't expect to start it at -40).
It's the premixed systems that are real trouble.
Brad Hitch
Reply to
Brad Hitch
Had a HS teacher (late 60s / early 70s) that used his heating oil to fuel his Mercedes Diesel.
Unless you are going to be hit with an "emergency delivery charge"...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
I wish that were true - I'm just east of the island and I'm freezing my kahonas off!(but we are warmer than -35!)
Dale Greene SPAAR 503
Reply to
Dale Greene
Interesting - what type of service contract do you have? Do you get lower base rate because of that? Every oil company in my neck of the woods guarantees a free amount if they let you run out!
Dale Greene SPAAR 503 switched from oil to off-peak total electric - and am poorer and colder now
Reply to
Dale Greene
Thank you all for your information, it confirmed what I thought I knew.
To respond to a few questions and comments, The tank was new last season and indoors hence little if any accumulated debris. I also had them install a large fuel filter in the lines when they put it in. Works great!
As for a service contract... in this part of Vermont there is no natural gas service only propane which can be spendy and with electricity costs obscenely high, most everyone uses oil. Accordingly, there are over 15 local dealers and I play the cash sale market. It can save from 5 to 40 cents a gallon depending on the dealer and where in the price wars we are on any given day. One has to keep a close eye on the amount of fuel in the tank and not play it so close as I did last week.
Nakita
Reply to
Nakita

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