Airfix Spitfire F24 (1/48)

troffa wilson offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

I have had a very strange Easter! Numerous times over the past few days I have experienced coincidental events - so much so that I'm convinced that synchronicity is stalking me like a huge great stalking thing. You question is another case in point as I am just about to start building that self same kit in that self same scheme. Therefore, like you, I have been pondering the self same question.

I feel that the correct scheme would be the standard Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey. The conclusion to which I have come takes into account the fact that 80 Sqn was based in RAF Germany before being transferred to Hong Kong. In RAFG some of their aircraft wore the standard DG/OG/MSG scheme, with D-type roundels. Others were overall silver.

As you stated, the DG/DSG uppersurface scheme was introduced in 1952. However it only really started to appear regularly on aircraft during 1954. The scheme had PRU Blue undersurfaces, which as you mentioned was later amended to high speed silver (or sometimes natural metal) During the 70s, Light Aircraft Grey replaced silver on the undersurfaces. The 80 Sqn aircraft clearly had grey undersurfaces (as opposed to silver) so I feel that the DG/OG/MSG scheme is far more likely for these aircraft. The silver aircraft would have been repainted on arrival in an operational theatre. Bear in mind that Dark Sea Grey was a relatively new colour for the RAF. It is likely that stocks would have been delivered to home based squadrons first. 80 Sqn would have been at the far end of a long supply line and I feel sure would have had great difficulty sourcing stocks of the new paint. However, Ocean Grey was in plentiful supply.

Those are my conclusions, but I must stress that they are *opinion* and not documented fact. I hope that I haven't simply muddied the waters.

Thanks for the response Enzo,

I am coming to the same conclusions as yourself,and In the absence of any references to the contrary, I think I will complete the model in the Day Fighter Scheme with ocean grey.(I will also investigate 80 Sqn a bit further, the squadrons previous RAF Germany location could be significant as you suggest)

Thanks for your time!

Regards,

Troffa.

Since your first posting on this subject, I've been looking for my references on 80Sn Spitfires in Hong Kong. The subject received a lot of attention in Scale Models in 1977 and 78 after the release of the Matchbox kit in 1/32nd scale.

A letter from Glyn Jones appeared in the December 1977 issue. Mr. Jones said that the Spits started out in Dark Green/ Ocean Grey/ Medium Sea Grey but were repainted in Hong Kong. He goes on to say that aircraft with PK serials were repainted in Dark Green/ Dark Earth/ Medium Sea Grey and those with VN serials were repainted in DG/ Dark Sea Grey/ Light Sea Grey.

An article by Jery Scutts followed in January 1978 but dealt only with markings rather than camouflage schemes. Finally, a letter and photographs from Gordon Bowtle, a Spitfire pilot in 80 Sn from 1949 to 1951, appeared in the February 78 issue. This was largely concerned with markings but also covered camouflage to some extent.

Mr. Bowtle said that local climatic conditions were very severe and the aircraft finishes suffered accordingly. Some of the aircraft were stripped to a natural metal finish but severe corrosion resulted in their being repainted soon afterwards. The deterioration of the paint was such that "each aircraft was re-sprayed at the end of its major inspection in dark green/ dark sea grey with medium sea grey undersides." Unfortunately, Mr. Bowtle did not say what the original colour scheme was.

After reading these sources, I am inclined to think that the Spits arrived from Germany in Dark Green/ Ocean Grey/ Medium Sea Grey but were progressively repainted using Dark Sea Grey in place of Ocean Grey as time went on. This is not conclusive, of course. Mr. Jones and Mr. Bowtle may have assumed that the repainting used Dark Sea Grey without knowing with certainty that it was so. Enzo Matrix seems, from his previous postings, to know his way around RAF colours pretty well and his judgement that there would not have been a stock of DSG in Hong Kong at such an early date may be entirely correct. Unfortunately, I have no other sources on this question.

Much of the correspondence centred on markings because the squadron markings were not uniform in their application. The markings worn, their positions and styles (eg Type C or Type D) varied from one Spit to another and changed over time. My impression is that local conditions both necessitated and encouraged an idiosyncratic approach to the application of markings and anyone modelling one of these Spits should get as many photographs as he can of his chosen aircraft and take his markings from them.

I hope this is of some help.

Gordon McLaughlin

Gordon McLaughlin offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

Hmmm... Very interesting indeed. Thanks for these comments, Gordon.

I must admit to being very interested in doing a DG/DSG scheme on a Spitfire. It is a very smart scheme indeed and looks very good with D-type roundels. My stumbling block is the thought of the difficulties in acquisition of suitable paint stocks. I spent a number of years in the RAF and have personal experience of this sort of problem.

The comment about deterioration of paint sounds very reasonable indeed - especially where Ocean Grey is concerned. Ocean Grey has a large blue component. Blue is a very fugitive colour and tends to fade very badly - just think of British Rail's blue diesels in the 70s and 80s!

I hate to mention this but is there a possibility that the grey used was a locally mixed colour, similar to the "mixed grey" used in the transition from Dark Earth to Ocean Grey?

Oops... can open... worms all over the place! :-)

As a point of interest, Eagle Strike produce this scheme on their sheet

You may be right about locally mixed paint. It crossed my mind when reading the articles but I don't know what the practicalities are of mixing large quantities of paint on an aerodrome. Apparently, 24 Sn had Spits in Hong Kong at the same time and had the same trouble with weathering and corrosion on their Mk18s. Perhaps it was worth the bother of mixing enough for both squadrons. There were certainly stocks of black and white for the Korea stripes.

One of the articles mentioned trouble with blue paint used for the squadron codes in place of the usual Sky. It peeled off apparently and had to be replaced. There was also an attempt to use a dull red in some of the roundels, red oxide I think, and it was no good for the job either. This suggests troubles with local paint stocks so a local brew for the grey is not too far fetched.

Good luck with the model. If anyone does a decent Spitfire 22 or 24 in

Gordon McLaughlin

Gordon McLaughlin offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

Again, this has a ring of truth about it. When in Germany, 80 Sqn had Roundel Blue codes with a white shadow. The codes used in Hong Kong were just plain white.

As my last e-mails were written from memory, I thought I'd take another look at the magazines before replying.

It seems that the blue squadron codes were applied in Germany and not to all aircraft. Similarly, the red oxide was applied to some wing roundels in Germany beacause of a shortage of the correct paint. Photographs of the Spitfires arriving in Hong Kong show the codes as a light colour that could be Sky or white but does not look as if it is blue. The same photographs show the aircraft fitted with 90 gallon belly tanks (slipper tanks) and with rocket stubs and bomb racks under the wings. These weapon racks appear in later shots.

Some of the Spits are shown as having Type D roundels and fin flashes on arrival but others retained Type C and there is a picture of W2-T (VN307) with Type C markings and Korea stripes which were applied in Spring 1950, showing that the older style was not immediately replaced. All aircraft seem to have retained the yellow wing leading edge stripes which I always dread having to paint onto models.

It looks as if almost anything that might have varied did so. If you have a particular aircraft in mind for the model, let me know and I'll see if there's a photograph or notes that might help.

Apparently, there were aircraft from three Spitfire squadrons on Hong Kong at the time, Mk18s from 28Sn, Mk24s from 80Sn and a few PR19s from 81Sn. An enviable place to be!

Gordon McLaughlin

LOL I've been doing the same!

I have only been able to find a single picture in my references. RAF Museum picture P15536 shows an F24 of 80 Sqn being ferried ashore from HMS Ocean. The aircraft code and serial is not visible. However, the squadron code is clearly a single light colour. The roundels are Type D and the codes seem to match the white in the roundel.

In agreement with what you stated, the aircraft carries a belly tank and bomb racks and rocket stubs on the wing.

After due consideration, I think that I would use Ocean Grey for a newly arrived aircraft. However, I want to make mine with those nice Korean war stripes - effectively in the kit scheme. As you stated, it seems that the grey had been repainted by that time. I'm not convinced that it was true Dark Sea Grey. I think it may well have been a locally mixed grey - either a black/white mix or a quantity of black added to ocean grey in an attempt to reduce the vulnerable blue component. Either way, I think that I will represent this grey using Dark Sea Grey, as recommended by Airfix.

Thanks for your comments, Graham. I hope this all helps Troffa as well.

Graham? Where did that come from?? How rude of me! :-(

My apologies, Gordon, but thanks once again for the helpful comments.

Gordon, Enzo,

sorry for the silence but I have been out of usenet range for a few days.

Thanks for all your input and your helpful thoughts on this rather murky matter.

I have noticed that the old "matchbox" 1/32 Spit F24 has this aircraft on the box art and It looks like its in the day fighter scheme(Cant confirm though!- anyone have the instruction sheet?)

I have also asked (through a third party) Trev Snowdon of the Airfix website about this scheme and his one line reply wasn't very illuminating (something like "they changed to DSG just after the war")

Hyperscale didnt shed any conclusive light on this one either.

I think I will just have to build two examples of this fine kit!

Many thanks,

Troffa.

As Gordon stated, the directive for the use of DSG came out in 1952, but its use was not really commonplace until 54. That's hardly "just after the war". ;-)

It *is* a fine kit, but the decals are *abysmal* - at least on my sheet. The codes and serials are usable, as they are just black or white and therefore there are no register problems. Anything multicoloured is effectively useless and the roundels have some very weird colours. That isn't really a problem as I was going to source them elsewhere anyway - but just look at the 80 Sqn badge! Luckily, the badge is available on two other sheets, Eagle Strike 48160 and Dutch Decal 4809. However, it's a shame as this just increases the cost of the model.

I also recently bought a resin cockpit for this kit, from True Details. It cost £8.99, but I thought that was better than paying twenty quid for the Cutting Edge set. However, after getting it home I found that there is a reason for the difference in cost! ;-)

Troffa,

I'm glad it was of some use. Sorry I couldn't find anything conclusive.

Troffa and Enzo,

I see that Special Hobby are to release 1/72 kits of the Spitfire 24 and Seafire 47 this year. If so, and I can find the cash, I'll have a similar problem myself!

Best of luck with the models.

Gord> > Gordon, Enzo,

As an aside, I have two each of the Airfix 1/48 F-22/24 and FR-46 kits and each one has warped wingtips. The FR-46 kits have both left and right outer (folding parts), both upper and lowers so badly warped that they cannot be straightened and still look acceptable. Has anyone else experienced this? several years ago, when these kits were first released, I bought an FR-46 kit and it had the same problem. Now I have three 1/48 scale FR-46s that are all quite unbuildable.

Bill,

I haven't noticed any problems with the wings in my example, but my decals are a bit ropey!

Regards,

Troffa,

I must have gotten the good ones. 8-) No problems with my F.22/24 or 46/47.

Don McIntyre Clarksville, TN