Woodier will love it!

More top level bungling, and good ol boy type mentallity!

"Byrd asked Taguba, "Who gave the order to soften up these prisoners, to 'give them the treatment?' Was this policy? Who approved it?"

"I did not find any evidence of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did," Taguba replied.

"I believe that they did it on their own volition. I believe that they collaborated with several MI (military intelligence) interrogators at the lower level"

Yes, The boys in command always get away clean, just blame the GI!

Melnick

Reply to
Mr.Melnick
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I dunno- This shit has hit the fan big time, it strikes me that Karpinski will sing like a canary. Also, having read the Taguba report, it strikes me that there is a serious lack of training in the Reserves, from top to bottom. Also, from reading between the lines and being a career bureaucrat, Taguba seems to be stating that if MI and CIA want to play KGB games, they will have to do it without the MPs in the future.Also, my $.02 here: I do not know if the extensive use of "private contractors" performing military and semi-military functions in a war zone is a good idea. However, if this practice is to continue, some sort of accountability is needed, like one congressman's idea four years ago to hold them to the UCMJ, but be tried in civilian criminal court. Kim M

Reply to
Royabulgaf

Taguba went on to very clearly say it was a complete failure of leadership. Curt

Reply to
C Knowles

Speaking as one who spent 8 years in the reserves and National Guard (Albeit, back in the McNamara era) I can vouch for that. I won't waste your time with details unless you ask for them but trust me, many of us would have been more dangerous to ourselves than to an enemy if called up.

Bill Shuey

Reply to
William H. Shuey

Reserve training lacking?

I spent two years in the Reserves, at least that's what they told the draft board.

They got really confused when it got straightened out as I had worked in the defence industry and had never seen a Reserve posting.

Eventually they sent me a "Don't call us and we won't call you" letter.

One thing I got out of working around airplanes was a lifelong modeling interest and tons of research contacts.

Tom

Reply to
Maiesm72

The media is having a field day with this stuff. Where were they when Saddam was actually torturing prisoners? What our military did is equivalent to a sorority hazing. Where were all these Mid-East complainers when Saddam was torturing and killing people?

The Keeper (of too much crap)

Reply to
Keeper

That's a bad analogy - people volunteer to join sororities. The victims in this case were forced to take part.

The same place they are now - trying to make people aware of the problem. Here's a link to a 2001 press release:

Reply to
Rob Kelk

Where is the media now? The give a 20 second blurb on the poor SOB that was tied up and beheaded by 5 masked (ah, what brave heroes they are) terrorists and 10 minutes on the Iraqi prisoners. Same thing happened with the 4 contractors that were burned and hung from a bridge a month ago or the POWs who were hacked to death during the war. As soon as the fire went out in the vehicles, the media lost interest.

While I certainly do not condone what a couple of loose-cannon screws did at abu Ghuraib and anyone with complicity should meet justice, I'm left to wonder about something else. We've been having DoD and Congressional leaders literally tripping over each other to race to the TV cameras to proclaim their disgust and outrage and give apologies.

However, I haven't heard anyone from the other side utter a peep of apology for the cold-blooded murder of these people, nor have I seen even near comparable media coverage. What's up with that?

"The world would be a much simpler place if every one could pick and choose their obligations, but we can't and we shouldn't." Major Charles W. Whittlesey

Reply to
Bill Woodier

I dunno- Since Al-Quada is a Saudi organization, I guess the Saudis should apologise. Shrub might want to bring it up next time the Saudi ambassador drops by the White House to get his butt kissed. Kim M

Reply to
Royabulgaf

Simple really. We know those terrorists have no scruples, no conscience and no moral standing beyond rage, hatred and fundamentalist intolerance. We have scruples. We have consciences. We have moral standing. And so we cannot tolerate any crap, small, large or in-between, in our own behavior, no matter how evil and inhumane the terrorists choose to be. Those cowards would not do any of this if they weren't sure they'd never be caught. Of course, they might just be wrong about that, and then they can receive a dose of our justice--not our rage, hatred or fundamentalist intolerance. As much as I hate the death penalty, I'll always make an exception for terrorists who kill.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

Please do not hold your breath waiting for it to happen. We have few enough modelers as it is.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

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I can't imagine why _anybody_ would put *any* stock in CNN's reporting anymore, and most of the Leftmedia in the US isn't much better....

Reply to
Al Superczynski

All well and good. How about the Arabs living in the Middle East? Where were *their* complaints about Saddam's human rights violations??

Reply to
Al Superczynski

I'm glad to know that. How about if we kill them *before* they kill? Will that work for you too?

Reply to
Al Superczynski

Saudi royal family has been friends with the Bushes since the 1970s.

Tom

Reply to
Tom H

Employment of deadly force has always been appropriate to apprehend probable felons. I think terrorists qualify.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

Playing nice-nice with the Saudi royal family isn't (and hasn't been) the sole domain of President Bush and the Republicans.

Both King Fahd (when he still knew who he was) and Crown Prince Abdullah were frequently French-kissed on their unwashed privates by Clinton and his SoS as well. Try to be more fair, impartial, and balanced in reporting of "the facts" or you might be in danger of being confused with Ted Turner's CNN.

"The world would be a much simpler place if every one could pick and choose their obligations, but we can't and we shouldn't." Major Charles W. Whittlesey

Reply to
Bill Woodier

Who are the democrats who have been their personal family friends for 3 decades?

Tom

Reply to
Tom H

You don't have to be a personal friend to kiss someone's ass. What you need is a reason; a personal motive or perception of a favor in return. Ass-kissing done for the sole purpose of self-gain is much more disgusting than the interaction of friends.

"The world would be a much simpler place if every one could pick and choose their obligations, but we can't and we shouldn't." Major Charles W. Whittlesey

Reply to
Bill Woodier

I'm not surprised to learn there are none. I've always suspected that racial diversity is something the Dems preach and fail to practice in their own personal lives.

WmB

To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Reply to
WmB

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