Ok, so U.S. Rockets [NEVER] existed? I am confused!

Doing a reading of the SNOAR Rocket Newsletter at: http://tinyurl.com/dr4y4 I learned more about Jerry Irvine ... it was every informative ... seems Mr. Irvine only understands the, 'language of the fist'.
I did a little more checking and I found this federal court document where Jerry states that: "U.S. Rockets does not now, and has [NEVER] existed." He also states that the company makes less that $10,000 net income annually with 2 employees ... very confusing!
the federal report ---> http://rspa-atty.dot.gov/appeals/Irvine-app.pdf
Ok, I have a few questions and maybe some of you might be able to asnwer?
1)If U.S. Rockets [NEVER] existed, then what are the kits and motors being sold right now on ebay and ROL? Are they fakes?
2)The 1980s U.S. Rockets forms and fliers where Jerry Irvine attaches his name to the company are also fake or owned by some OTHER Jerry Irvine?
3)Prodyne/Dynamic/"what ever" only makes $10,000.00 net annually, why is Jerry so insterested in continuing rocketry? Its poverty level income, and those employees must be slave labor to work that cheap?
4)Does anyone know an active/real telephone number or address for Jerry? Is the P.O. Box listed in Claremont CA, still valid?
5)About what year was the FIRST Jerry scam performed?
6)Why do people support Jerry Irvine today? Is it just ignorance, or are they part of the scam themselves?
I don't know if these points have been discussed in depth, but I would like to just get a couple of in-depth postings so that things can get sorted out.

snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:
Gee, thanks... And it had been so quiet and civil here lately, too... <G>
David Erbas-White

David Erbas-White wrote:
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I won't say anything... at least not until the smoke and burning bits cease. :)

I sure hope it stays that way.. However, I'm sure, that will be determined by the response of the principle..(:-)
Fred
David Erbas-White wrote:
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WOW! I didn't know Jerry was in Hollywood! Well if the following website is accurate, he and his "non-existent" U.S. Rockets company did the rocket motors in the movie, "The Running Man"!
Running Man/ U.S. Rockets page --> http://tinyurl.com/a6g4d
Is this the Jerry Irvine who developed High Power Rocketry down in Southern CA, or a different Jerry Irvine?
Its so confusing to keep up with the twists/company names/victims/law suits/fines ...

will the real slim shady please stand up ?
shockie B)
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well the shady part seems to be correct.
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Snip for brevity's sake.
Boy,
Now I know why the discussions here about this topic generate smoke, heat and high emotions. The SNOAR article only goes up to 1991. It's ashame things turned out like they did.
Kurt Savegnago

Kurt,
It is ashamed. From what I can figure out, Jerry Irvine was the most promissing talent in low and high power rocketry ... liken to a young Anikin Skywalker. The "rocket force" was strong in him. I have been reading old rockety mags from the late 1970s and early 1980s where he pioneered many high power kits, and co-developed reloads with Gary R. and Frank K [ <---- not sure if this is true or not, but this is what Jerry says ].
Jerry seemed to be in good company with the mover and shakers of early HPR ... but what went wrong? Where was the first mistake made?
It seems to me, and this is just speculation, that perhaps DRUGS came into the picture!
Now I have it on good sources that MANY of the HPR pioneers and a few current posters to this group were into cocaine and heroine back in the 1970s and 80s. Matter of fact, one of the respected REGULAR posters to this news group, who's name I will not state, as I am not stating mine, told another rocketeer, "Heroine is better than sex". This heroine user currently lives in CA, and that is all I will say about that.
But as for Jerry Irvine, I will raise the question ... was Jerry's decline due in part to drug abuse/addiction? The continued bonced checks, getting evicted from first his foreclosed house, then apartment after apartment, his wife finally dumping him and running off with a friend of his, his scams to rip off EVERYONE in the hobby (buyers, sellers, advertisers, TRA, NAR, ...), just makes me wonder if drug abuse is behind this OUT OF CONTROL behavoir? It has to be unless Jerry has been diagnosed with some mental disorder.
Drugs cause you to lose control of yourself, and that is not a good thing. I guess if you want to get high, get your rocket high an not yourself.
I have seen people ruined by drugs. They think they can handle it because they are SMARTER than the drugs, they can keep control ... but they are just lying to themselves and the drugs are really in control!
When Jerry first started in the hobby, he seemed to be in control. Oh, he was an arrogant little crap, but alot of young people back then, were like that. Then things changed, Jerry changed, and he started to grow dark and sinister. He started to prey on people ... people who respected him ... its almost like, he didn't want the respect, or as if he didn't feel that he was worthy of continued respect ... this is a symptom of drug abuse.
Well I guess we will never really know all the TRUTHS behind Jerry Irvine. I can say this, it REALLY is ashamed the way things turned out. I say the following not in satire but in truth: Jerry Irvine is NOT a dummy. He is a bright and intelligent man. The problem is that he is also a sociopathic miscreant bent on scewing everyone he come into contact with. If he could just change this aspect of his persona and make good on all the wrong he has done to people over the decades, I am sure that rocket people, who have their OWN personal skeletons, could come to forgive and trust (but verify) Jerry once more.
Jerry, I know you are reading this, and I am begging you to seek professional help. You are not a lost cause! You have value if you could just channel it in positive ways. You are going to have to stop the drugs and be willing to say to yourself, "I am somebody!".
Jerry, the rocketry community awaits your return!
Kurt wrote:
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Dude, what's wrong with you? Did you forget your medicine this morning? What in the world ever posessed you to paint the HPR pioneers as drug addicts in a public forum?
Even though I don't personally agree with most of the opinions that he posts, I feel bad for Jerry Irvine. He did nothing to deserve a public slander like this.
I certainly hope you are not a member of any rocketry association I belong to. You have gone way, way, way too far.
snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:
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Hello Dynapython,
Well because people are people. Some people who fly REAL rockets are alcoholics, e.g. Neil Armstrong (Apollo 11) is an alcoholic. Alcohol is a substance that one can become addicted to in the SAME was as H-E-R-O-I-N. You see, people are people. We all have the capacity to love, to hate, to murder, to care, to steal, to lie, to feel, to want, ect.. Its just that most of us have self control and that it what keeps us civil and progressing as a society/culture.
Some (not MOST, I retract that predicate noun), not all, some being one or more, of the "founding fathers" of both low and high power rocketry, did in fact, use drugs. Now some used the drug of alcohol, while others used controlled substances ... am I going to name them, nope, because that is there personal business. One of them did share their experiences and opinions with narcotics with a fellow flyer back in the late 1970s. Is that flyer still using the narcotic? I don't know. It was just posed as speculation as to why Jerry Irvine does the things that he has done over and over over the last 27+ years.
So please, don't place words where they never were. Again, SOME (more than 1) of the 1970s/80s /low/high power flyers, by his own mouth admitted, in confidence, that he felt that H-E-R-O-I-N was "more pleasurable than sex". Now how you arrived at, " What in the world ever posessed you to paint the HPR pioneers as drug addicts in a public forum? " was NOT the point I was trying to make, although SOME of them were users. People make unwise choices in ALL professions and hobbies on life. There are NAR people who show up drunk at the flying field. At a NARAM event years back, a drunk flyer, crashed several radio controlled rocket gliders in a row ... it was sad to see, but it does happen. There are people who were major players in model rocketry who are now dead because of a car crash due to drugs and alcohol, sad but true. I wish it were a perfect world, but is isn't.
As for Jerry Irvine, its not that I am trying to call him names as that has been and will always be done given the current issues with him. I am just trying to understand, WHY a person makes choices that lead to such an unrecoverable fall. I am not chastising the man, instead I want to see him in a positive light. Like I said, either he has a REAL physical neurological issue, or it MIGHT be, a drug addiction as I have seen people throw away six figure a year incomes, homes, and family for a little white rock, or power heated in a spoon then injected. And personally, I don't think its a physical reason as to Jerry's behavoir, so that only leaves ...
No angst against Jerry meant at all in these postings. Actually, I hope that Jerry might be inspired by these posting to get things worked out and positively re-enter rocketry. And if it should be substance abuse, that is far more forgivable than blatant greed. Drugs have a way of short circuiting the brain's built in common sense.
As for the last sentence in your posting, "I certainly hope you are not a member of any rocketry association I belong to. You have gone way, way, way too far.", I just hope you realise that there are people who fly rockets (NAR/TRA members) who beat there wives and children. There are members who use weed, meth, coke, H-E-R-O-I-N, booze, ect.. There is likely to be a member a two in both organizations that molest young children and perhaps use the pretence of, "lets go fly a rocket together Timmy", as a way to get into the child's pants ... its NOT a perfect world. Everyone is NO WHERE NEAR a Jesus Christ. Personally, you should be proud that I am a member of either organization as I could be the guy parking next to you at the next meet, loaning you some thermalite, or helping you prep your large chute or carry supplies out to the pads. If I am willing to be intellectually and emotionally honest with you here, CHANCES are, I will be so in person :) Be careful what you wish for, as you may get it.

snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:
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Geez...it almost sounds like your admitting that you might be a member that might, and I quote you;
"that there are people who fly rockets (NAR/TRA members) who beat there wives and children. There are members who use weed, meth, coke, H-E-R-O-I-N, booze, ect.. There is likely to be a member a two in both organizations that molest young children and perhaps use the pretence of, "lets go fly a rocket together Timmy", as a way to get into the child's pants"
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

Hi Ted,
Could be and the same MIGHT apply to you? People are people ... thats why we have laws and establish limits on personal behavior, but alas this still doesn't any of my original questions :(
Since you have an opinion on my choice of words and phrases, perhaps, you might be able to also share commentary on Jerry Irvine, both his behavoir and possible motivations behind it?
Ted, is it pure greed that motivates Jerry? Is it substance abuse? Ted, what say you?

snipped-for-privacy@juno.com wrote:
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How would I know??? Your the one that seams to know all in all about people in rocketry.
And judging from your posts, I'm starting to wonder....'What's Lunarlos's choice of poison?'
So I ask of Lunarlos, what are you on??
:)
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75

says...
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Same here. Can I get some?

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Hey Boy! Get a load of this...... http://www.chickenrocket.com /
and this.... http://www.chickenrocket.com/Chicken%20Rocket.mp3
Randy www.vernarockets.com

Randy!
HAHAHAHAHA ... very funny! I was just commenting last night to a dinner guest, that over 2 billion chickens are consumed every year in the U.S.. Also made the observation that chickens are THE tastiest animal in my opinion because their flesh absorbs the taste of what ever you cook them in.
You can smoke, fry, bake, broil, boil, jerkify, bread, casarole, and stew them! Also, chickens just don't have any real appealing traits other than their taste, so killing, plucking, gutting, and prepairing them has absolutely NO guilt related feelings involved.
Chickens are a food source, a very tasty food source and nothing more ... I guess now we are totally off topic ... well at least its not going into a flame war :)

On 4 Nov 2005 13:08:05 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@juno.com"
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<snip>
Don't forget the ones fired into jet engines to test their hardiness...
<g>
tah

snipped-for-privacy@weinerboy.org wrote:
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Whose hardiness? The chicken's or the jet engine's?

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 21:52:54 GMT, Dave Grayvis
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Ya know.. I hate it when I do that...
The chickens, of course...
<vbg>
tah