DCC : wireless vs plug in

I won't address RADIO wireless, as I've had NO experience with it.

Our club is using Digitrax Infra-red wireless with considerable success.

Problems with it are few, and they mostly involve line-of-sight issues between the transmitters (throttle) and receivers. We currently use two mast-mounted receivers. This has eliminated most of our earlier problems. Wireless also comes with a response time penalty ... the trains will respond more slowly to issued commands. This is not a big issue, but is noticeable.

All the throttle I've seen with IR also have plug-in capabilty. This feature is used mostly when initially programming (addressing) a loco when it's put on the track.

The freedom from wires is very handy when you're following your train around the layout.

Dan Mitchell ==========

Matt Brennan wrote:

Hi Matt, Comments inline below:

: : (a) in other words, can 'plug-in' hand sets be upgraded to wireless at : a later date?

Digitrax offers a Radio upgrade for $50 for the DT300 or DT400.

: (b) can a wireless be a 'plug-in' unit?

You must plug in a Digitrax throttle to select/deselect an engine. : : I suspect that a wireless can plug-in to a system. If so, it would : seem to make sense to buy wireless UNLESS it is determined/believed : that the 'wireless' performance issues are attributed to the : handset(s).

I believe the performance issues are related only to the radio link. :

: : 2) Objectively speaking, what are the shared, negative issues with : wireless [performance] for both Digitrax and NCE, and/or what are the : individual issues if you can only speak to the brand you own or chose : not to own?

I'll speak to Digitrax as I have no experience with NCE.

a) Must plug into the net for engine acquisition b) Higher battery drain; plug into the net to minimize drain when not in use (if keep-alive power connected). c) Slight time delay over direct connection. Might increase with more radio units operating. d) No issues of coverage in a 20' x 30' area split with a concrete block wall.

: I ask because I would then have a list of features/issues/concerns to : discuss with the companies/store. : : Many Thanks! : Matt

Matt,

IIRC, Digitrax has a 'factory' upgrade for the DT300 to a DT400R(radio). If you go non-radio, you will need to get a UR91 base unit to handle the radio throttles. It just plugs into the LocoNet - no big problem. I originally has a pair of DT100 throttles. I had this factory upgraded to DT100R throttles and they are given to folks to run a train after it has been setup for them. I also have a pair of DT400R radio throttles and they are really nice. Very easy to use/program. I also have a PalmPilot M105 with the Digitrax cable and software to use it as a non-radio tethered throttle. The radio throttles are really nice to have, and I really am glad I made the purchase. I have three plug-in jack locations(the UR91 radio base unit also has plug-in jacks). I have velcro on the back of the throttles, and on the fascia near the jack locations - I leave the throttles plugged in and stuck to the fascia when not in use - I just wish the batteries would 'charge' through the LocoNet - I have to put a fresh set of batteries in the throttles every month. With low battery, you will get strange this happening - replacing the battery always resolves the problem! And yes, the Digitrax radio throttles can be 'plug in'. They have to be so you can 'program'(read CV's back from a decoder). The cable is short, it is used as the antenna.

Jim Bernier

Matt Brennan wrote:

You can upgrade the NCE units later.

Yes, NCE will disable the radio if you plug the tail in.

It's mostly the antennae; 1/4 wave produces a cone, 1/2 wave produces a torroid (doughnut) shaped broadcast pattern. Where you place the base station antenna has a big influence on what antenna to use and how things will perform. Antennae are farily cheap so it you have to swap them out it's not a huge deal.

It can also be affected by # of simultaneous users.

Visit some of the DCC groups for the excruciating details.

Good luck, Paul

Digitrax-----YES

Digitrax----YES

I have Digitrax and have radio capability. All of the layouts in our local operating group have Digitrax radio as well, so I get plenty of experience with, and exposure to it.

I don't care for radio.

I do not use it anymore either at home or at other layouts. I prefer tethered operation as it works more reliably, offers finer, more positive control and is not subject to intermittent and unexpected operations. I recently purchased my first DT-400 throttle and opted to NOT get the radio option in it. I also use a number of UT-1 throttles which are not radio capable. At first, I saw this as a negative. Now, however, it is a non-issue since the radio is disconnected anyway.

It's a hard call to make. I would hate to advise you to go ahead and get the radio because you might possibly like it. You might, or you might not. Unfortunaately there is no way to know until after the fact. If. like me, you decide that you don't like it after all, well, you're stuck with the expenditure. If you elect not to get it then you may always feel that you have missed something important.

To upgrade to Digitrax radio you need a model UR-1 radio reciever for the loconet and a transmitter for your DT-300 or DT-400. MSRP about $200

Go to:

....................F>

That should be:

"If you go RADIO, you will need to get a UR91 base unit to handle the radio throttles."

It also is an IR receiver, and will work with DT100, DT300 and DT400 throttles in IR mode...

A common mistake. The antenna is inside the case. The cable is just the cable. Joe Ellis ? CEO Bethlehem-Ares Railroad - A 1:160 Corp. ___a________n_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_n______ ___|8 8B| ___ /::::: / /::::X/ /:::::/ /:::::/|| ||__BARR| | | /::::::/ /:::::X /:::::/ /:::::/ ||

---------------------------------------------------------------- [(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)] |_________________________| [(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)] =============Serving America's Heartland Since 1825=============

Nope. The cable is not the antenna.

It is short because AJ thinks that if you have a radio throttle you wil never need to use it as a tethered throttle. To a point he is "sort-of" correct. A long cord on a non-tethered throttle could become a PITA, but there are ways around that too.

At any rate, the cord in nothing but a cord. The antenna is inside the handheld unit and is completely contained.

To use the radio unit as a tethered throttle with some "walking around room" you need to get a phone cord and a union or "extention" union from almost any place that sells telephone equipment. not a big hurdle at all.

..........F>

Just another option. Our club has used the CVP wireless system with both our old railcommand system and now with our Lenz. It also works with the NCE system. It can be added anytime after the initial purchase. It cannot be plugged in. The only problem we've had with the system is when someone shows up with a throttle that is not set right (each one has an address and mode). When that happens we start getting unpredictable results.

It's been over a year and I don't remember the details, but the Digitrax wireless system is one of the main reasons we went with Lenz to begin with.

Thanks everyone! for your insights on the pros and cons of both options.

It's a difficult decision. I have to read more, talk with more owners, and revisit both options, in use, a few more times. I certainly prefer the benefits of wireless technology. However, the overall enjoyment of model railroading clearly pivots on equipment performance. There's nothing more discouraging than equipment that falls short of expectations. Coupler failures, derailments, and [now] the loss of an engine beyond one's reach [i.e. inside a tunnel] turn pleasure into frustration, and I certainly don't need frustration within a hobby chosen as an escape from the daily grind.

Though my research is far from concluded and the replies are small in number, it appears that the 'plug-in' option is closer to full proof whereas the 'wireless' option has *some* issues, or a higher potential for *some* issues.

And, in the interest of being absolutely no help at all, I operate onthe same layouts as Froggy, and I love using radio, even in the yard where tethered operation is just as practical. But, I won't disagree with his list of problems, except to state that placement of antennas has a ~lot~ to do with how responsive the radio is to commands. Some railroads seem to operate better than others.

At home, I use infrared on a layout that is along one side of a 27' long room. I have one IR receiver hanging on the top of the wall right in the center, and this works fine for me. I need to get some UP-5s before Froggy comes over, though.

Since I am in a group that uses radio, I bought a radio throttle, but for home (to save money) I bought the IR receiver. That way I have the best of both worlds, without so much expense.

I see that sodigi.com has the Super Chief for $360, and the Radio Super Chief for $512. The IR receiver costs $37, so the regular set plus the IR receiver may be an inexpensive way to find out if you really want untethered operation.

Jeff Sc. Fontaine, Ga.