General Motors - Diesel Hydraulic GMDH-1

On 11/10/2007 10:05 PM Greg Procter spake thus:


This doesn't jibe AT ALL with what I've read on the subject. First of all, it implies that the SP (the customer for the Krauss-Maffei hydraulic diesels) were incredibly stupid and neglected to tell K-M what the intended application of the locos were, or that K-M was equally moronic and didn't ask.
In any case, the story is invariably told that the reason for the hydraulic's poor performance in the western United States was lack of a rigorous maintenance program (which was, apparently, SP's fault). Nothing inherently "wrong" about the design for the lines it ran over here; the SP was used to Fords and Chevys, and couldn't handle a Maserati.
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http://espee.railfan.net/sp-camera_car.html http://tinyurl.com/248av2 http://www.worldrailfans.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t 85 http://gelwood.railfan.net/manual/km-gen.html
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

OTOH the Krauss Maffei hydraulic drives couldn't handle SP (or BR) operating conditions. :-)
German operating conditions limited train lengths to (I think) 100 axles and the operating procedure to what amounts to drag races from signal to signal. The aim being to move a relatively light (in US terms) train as quickly as possible over any given route. It's a tough operating requirement for any mechanisim which demands rigourous maintenance. IMHO the German engineers failed to understand the different requirements.
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Greg Procter skriver:

Say what ? Hov could the pellet trains (Langer Heinrich?) then be running with 4000 Tonnes and a maximum axle load of 20 tonnes ?
That is 200 axles

Javel - ja.
Klaus
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"Klaus D. Mikkelsen" wrote:

Those are particular and specific operating circumstances - such trains don't run everywhere on the DB system but are limited to specific loads and routes.

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Greg Procter skriver:

Hmmm, but you just said 100 axles ?
I can give you a lot of trains with more than 100 axles - especially freight trains.
Actually the reason why SP tested diesel hydaulic was because allmost 3/4 of the breakdowns they expeirenced on the diesel electric locos was on the electrical system - not the mechanic.
Klaus
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"Klaus D. Mikkelsen" wrote:

My understanding was that the DB (circa the period when Diesel Hydraulics were developed and intensively operated) had a limit expressed in wagon axles for it's general freight trains.

Interesting - I didn't know that.
Greg.P.
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Klaus, for the axle count that you provided, is that from the years that KM was using this style of loco, or is this a current figure?
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"Frank A. Rosenbaum" skriver:

The "Langen Heinrich" ran between 1960's to the 1980's. It userd 2 locos often the type 42, 43 and 44 steam, butt allso the type 216 deisel (hydraulic).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langer_Heinrich_%28Zug%29
Regarding the diesel hydraulic in germany, the first "big ones" were the class V200 from 1953 (2x1100HP/4 axle) and the 6 axle ML2200 for juguslavian railways. From those the V300 came in 1957 with its 2x1450HP and 6 axles. Theis loco ran untill 1978. During the test period it ran at the Semmeringbahn, Schwrazwaldbahn and was later tested in both Austria and Hungary.
So Krauss Maffei was used to build powerfull locos used for heavy traction.
Klaus
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Klaus D. Mikkelsen wrote:

Erm, Klaus, the Semmering is in Austria. Kind of difficult for the loco to be tested there and later in Austria...
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Wolf Kirchmeir skriver:

They changed the motors to the 1450 HP type 1 year after the first test at Semmering - then they went back and to Hungary.
Klaus
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

The Semmering is between Austria and Italy. It goes up and then down over mountains. The Austria/Hungary area is flatter.
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Greg Procter wrote:

Erm, the Semmering is between Lower Austria and Styria. You're thinking of the Brenner Pass.
PS: Klaus, thanks for the info re remotoring.
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Good point! (Ahrrggg!)

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Wolf Kirchmeir skriver:

You're most welcome.
The V300 was oficcialy taken over by the DB in 1965 and put into service at Hamm along with the V320. It was withdrawn from service in 1975, then they tried to sell it to Italy, but after some test runs around Udine it came back to Germany i 1978 and was scrapped in 1979.
The V320 is a Henschel build 23m long dieselhydraulic 6 axle loco, with 2x1900HP engines, from 1962. It had 2 "gears" with a maxumim speed of either 160 og 110 km/h, at low speed with more traction effort. It belonged to the DB until 1974 and was then sold to private operators where it is still running. It has been in the ownership of different opreators, including some in Italy.
Klaus
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Greg Procter wrote:

GP 1:
I didn't mean to imply it *was* a continental design, I mean it *looked* like one.
The strongest 1950s-automotive element is the pair of jet-age airscoops on the upper nose ends. Ignore those, and look at the centrally located turret cab with canted sides and flattish, slightly overhanging roof, and the low hoods with rounded tops. See what I mean now?
Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, the Venango & Erie.
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snipped-for-privacy@gannon.edu wrote:

Ahhh, an everyday pure New Zealand design feature - I didn't notice it. :-))))
The canted upper cab sides happens in almost every nation (with tunnels) other than the USSR and USA, due to much smaller loading gauges employed.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Big Rich Soprano wrote:

OP was asking about drawings.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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I know but this was the best i've found so far...
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Here's a start..
http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/ednora/smrsdoc02.jpg
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