get behind UP or get a new hobby

You just don't get, do you?

The model railroad hobby is composed of people, real live people who like trains, and some of them actually buy stock in railroads they like. When a railroad ticks off a group of stock holders who just may be in the model railroad business, and gets bad publicity in the process, the stock price falls, which in turn ticks off other stock holders because the management was greedy and wanted to make a few bucks from small businesses which were actually doing them a favor by providing free advertising.

But the real test is: Will the increased revenue from the model railorad industry meet or exceed the losses caused by the bad publicity?

Chessie did the same dumb thing about twenty years ago and made the front page of the Wall Street Journal for their troubles. Joe Luber of Pro Custom Hobbies was interviewed by the WSJ and gave Chessie a muched deserved zinger.

Alas, Joe is gone. I hope someone will take up the banner....................

Hmmm... nothing left! Joe Ellis ? CEO Bethlehem-Ares Railroad ___a________n_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_n______ ___|8 8B| ___ /::::: / /::::X/ /:::::/ /:::::/|| ||__BARR| | | /::::::/ /:::::X /:::::/ /:::::/ ||

---------------------------------------------------------------- [(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)] |_________________________| [(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Serving America's Heartland Since 1825

Why get the government to do something? I just don't buy anything with UP on it, I never have liked the road to begin with, and that goes a long way back before any licensing agreement was dreamed of.

The whole UP thing does get on ones nerves. It was mentioned that Chessie did a similar thing. Well, am I a bad person because I model Chessie? It's obvious that didn't last too long or isn't too much of an issue. What the UP is doing is a stupid move IMHO. I've heard so many arguments on the subject. Have you seen the prices in the UP gift shop website??? $27 for a chunk of wood, and I don't care who makes it. That's just crazy.

Kinda glad I model the Chessie, B&O and CSX. Maybe I should get a discount since all of my family worked for the B&O, lol. And then I need a discount for working on Conrail for any acquired equipment to CSX, lol.

Get real. There are not enough model railroaders holding UP stock to make a loud fart at a UP stockholders convention.

I have noticed that on a couple of O gauge forums I frequent that this same subject of UP and the 4% has also been discussed. I also notice that on both forums the percentage of those who support or at least understand UP decision runs about 60% of those expressing their views on the subject. I find that most interesting because as a whole, the O gauge trains are more expensive therefore UP action would cost them more. I can only summize that those posting here are in the smaller scales of HO and N and less likely to be able to support their expensive hobby.

IIRC, CSX now wants a flat fee every three years, and it's like $100. And that covers all products produced by that company. UP wants a percentage of each model sold and they want to be able to disapprove any product (but only after they get a production model). This can kill a manufacturer. For example, say some company wants to make Big Boys. First, they have to make the entire product run (mock-ups and betas are not good enough for UP) and then get permission. If UP ever said no, the company in question would take a huge financial hit.

CSX has not demanded the right of refusal...

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

It's not "summize" it's surmise. You're correct that O-gaige is more expensive. It's also bought more so by collectors and is in fact a minority scale compared to HO or N scale. I dropped the overpriced Lionel / MTH lines from my shop. However you miss the point. The point was why the UP has after many decades decided to try to collect on what is essentially a small market. They are doing exactly what Chessie tried to do. Based on the number of model railroad manufacturers that might be modeling the Union Pacific (how about 40 or 50?) how much does it cost to administer this program? Likely considerably less than it'll try to take in. This program smells like an attempt to make money and not control "logos". It's a bit difficult to understand needing to control a logo that's been in use by modelers for a long time. There is not a reason in the world that they cannot simply ask for approval of a product. There are how many new Union Pacific items brought to market in a given year?

Dave

Or the O gauge buyers are less discerning, and are more likely to buy branded, endorsed, "collectables", or in other words overpriced shit.

I don't think it matters why the UP has decided to charge for their logo. It is, after all, their logo and they can do what they wish. The few pennies per item aren't going to hurt anyone.

What could be done, if you have the power, is if you or your current employer ships with UP, find another source and tell UP why you're making the switch. Tell them that this charge on their logo is full of crap and this is a way to protest.

JMHO

Apparently nobody's told the UP stockholders they're supposed to be pissed off. The chart at

shows that the stock price has been on a steady climb for the past 2 months and the performance since March has been mostly positive. It looks like the trademark issue that started early in the year has had a positive effect on UP stock, not negative.

Oh come on, trains are trains. The O gauge community has long ago given up on collectables and now operate their trains. Try N scale Micro trains cars, like tank cars. Talk about over priced crap

Yup, that's it... let your hobby affect your ability to put food on your table. Anyone stupid enough to actually pull such a stunt would probably deserve the employment termination they'll get as a result.

"Hey, boss... guess what? I just switched our shipping over to trucks because UP is costing me a few extra dollars for some toy trains with their trademark licensing. Of course, our shipping expenses are now going up half a million dollars a year, but I had to make a statement to UP. What do you think? Boss...?"

Get a grip, people.

Who knows maybe shipping is cheaper another way. I don't know about you but I check around every year with my various insurance to see if I can get a better deal. Maybe this UP crap will spark interest to see if they can have thing ship cheaper another way.

If someone's employment involves making shipping decisions, it's likely they're making choices for their company based on what's best for the corporation as a whole. The notion that a person in such a position should ignore what's good business, and simply pull the plug on transporting products with UP account a rather miniscule (in the grand scheme of things) trademark licensing fee, is just plain idiotic and overemotional...

I can only imagine what outsiders must think, seeing a bunch of grown men carry on and propose such out of touch, knee-jerk reactions to products one step above toys!

We love our hobbies, don't we???

And these are guys who will readily spend $800 for an engine (0-ga) at that! The proposed internet tax will be a FAR bigger deal than licensing fees and yet I've not heard a peep about that.

Kent in SD

Here's the relevant part of Article 6 of the CSX " Trademark License Agreement":

6.1 Licensor shall have the power to control the manner of use of the Marks in all respects, including but not limited to its use in connection with the Merchandise and on associated advertising on web-sites and printed matter. To this end, as required by Licensor, Licensee shall submit to Licensor representative specimens of any uses Licensee proposes to make of the Marks, as contemplated by Section 1.1 above, for approval prior to the time any such use shall commence.

Both the UP and CSX have adopted license agreements that call for relatively low licensing fees -- which are even waived in some cases. But anyone who thinks that they'll stay that way is dreaming.

JR Hill