2004 SP2 is up...

Right-on Jeff. I'm glad you mentioned this. I too am on the 'Early Visibility' list and I'm just starting two major projects with a ton of eXtreme surfacing features.

One of the clients prefers their project to be modeled in SolidWorks 2004, so I'm going to take a gamble on SP2.

I sincerelly hope they addressed some of the PW2 issues, as I'll be doing some major rendering when finished.

Mike Wilson

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Whats the 'Early visibility' list?

Regards

Graeme

It's a list of people they use to debug the SP's.

I thought they called that the subscription base.

Well... All I can say is be prepared for lofts changing on you. I did a CTRL-Q on an SP1 part I did and the loft totally went crazy...

I would appreciate it if someone could do a CTRL-Q in SP1 or SP0 to see if it's maybe just my computer going nuts.

Thanks! Mike Wilson

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Mike, When I open the file, the surface loft is one single face. CTRL-Q turns it into multiple faces(??). Then the split line vanishes.

Of course, what I know about surfaces could fit in the shell of a mollusk, so I don't know if I've helped or not.

SP1

Richard

Interesting. Thanks you guys, I think I may just re-format my drive and install everything fresh again.

I had pre-releases and betas of 2004 installed several months ago and I just don't trust my installations now. Plus that file was made kinda half-fast.

Mike

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Mike,

Nah, well, if you made this file in one of the beta's (you have a last saved date of Nov 7?),.. maybe...? Otherwise, I understand your concern, and I would reinstall myself,.. but there should be no reason for you to do this because of this file?

If this file was made in a released version, then, this is a SW Corp problem,.. and now it becomes all our problem and all of our time and money is being wasted again,.. no?

May I ask, why do the users always think it is "their fault"? Var - user error psychology?

..

"Mike J. Wils>

It was made in SP0 or SP1, I forget, but definitely not in a beta or pre-release.

You know something occurred to me that I never really gave much thought to and that is how shielded the people at SolidWorks are from our frustration. It's like everything gets filtered through the VAR or SW Tech Support until the only problem SolidWorks sees is an SPR number.

It's like waiting two hours in the emergency room while you are slowly bleeding to death, and the doctor is on the other side of the wall, laughing it up with a patient that has a bee sting, completely unaware of the situation outside because the nurses are clueless.

Mike

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Good analogy. Maybe our nurses aren't always clueless but they sure as hell try hard to convince us we're not bleeding to death. Sometimes I feel like the group is divided too... some of the users convinced that every problem is a user error and / or the only solutions worth pursuing are changes in the way we work. Other users recognize problems with the software and want to vent, like me, aren't exactly welcomed. I don't come here to feel better about paying for Solidworks or recommending it to my boss, and I'm damn tired of the insulation factor that you summed up so well. Question is, what can we do about it. The beta program isn't helping like it should. The software gets released whether it's ready or not, and whether we say it is, or not. Early on I participated a lot in beta's for lots of different software, including Microsoft and Autodesk products, but now I don't even consider it worth my time.

- Eddy

Maybe we can get something published in CAD/CAMnet. They say Inventor users have problems with models failing when upgrading to the new version. Why not add SolidWorks to the list?

I'd think a well written article about the problems we face can get our voices heard a little better.

Mike

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A third group has resigned themselves to the fact that the software is flawed like everything else and try to work with the system (crummy as it is). It's just not worth getting angry about. It's about as useful as getting angry in traffic. It just raises blood pressure.

Hey Mike,

How did you create this model ??? Sure you didn't do it in 2003 and bring it forward ??

I brought it into 2004 SP0 and it segments the loft along the guide curves with a control-Q.

I deleted the loft, and then recreated it using your sketches, and it segmented in four places !!! I was able to get it down to a single left-right segmentation only after turning on maintain tangency, and advanced smoothing. (which you had "off" in the original)

Also, I was unable to select "sketch 5" from the graphics window. It would let me select "sketch 3", then when I selected five it would turn three off. I had to select it from the tree.

Man-O-man, what a bugfest. I feel sorry for you if you have to get any real work done with this pig. We won't be using it for quite a while yet.

Regards

Mark

Mike,

Correction,, you had "maintain tangency" on, but "advanced smoothing" off.

Regards

Mark

There is definitely a contingent on this ng that thinks it is cool to just act angry and criticize. People expect that from you when you're

1. If that's your thing, then I guess no one is going to persuade you that its imbecillic. Some folks say that they have a "right" to bitch endlessly. I don't think that's the case, although no one can stop you from doing it. Well, I've also got a "right" to call your idiocy what it really is - idiocy.

Criticizing software with so many shortcomings is too easy, its kind of disgraceful, like beating up your little sister. We all know there are tons of bugs in the software. What gets me is when somebody actually finds a bug and actually gets a spr for it, they act like "a bug!! a bug!! a bug!!" I have literally hundreds of sprs, and get

4-5 new ones a week. It's not a big deal to find a bug. You claim to just be "venting" as if that makes it ok, but "venting" usually relieves pressure, and these posts seem to feed off of one another and whip themselves into a spiralling frenzy.

To me what is far more interesting and meaningful is how do you work with flawed tools to get done what you need to do? Its not news that tools are flawed. Youre no hero for crying about how other people are preventing you from doing your job. No one is going to pay you for the ability to whine like a liberal activist/professional victim. The only thing that counts is your ability to get your engineering or design job done with flawed tools. If you do a good job at that, you will be rewarded and taken seriously.

If you cant make SolidWorks work to get your job done, there is something seriously wrong, and its your fault. You have selected the wrong tool. Theatrical whining to create a sensation in a public place won't help you, and it won't make the tools better or people at SolidWorks listen to you. You'd better put it back in the box and send it back because youre too stupid to use it.

If you really want to improve the tools, the best way to do it is to track down the bugs and interface inconsistancies and send them in to SW or your VAR. But dont do it with that whine you use here, people tend to tune out whiners because its unpleasant to listen to. (This post of yours has gained you status on my news readers "ignore" list because of your insistance on having nothing of value to say).

Oh, very dramatic. If you are bleeding, it is a self inflicted wound. No one has forced you to use this software. You said you recommended it to your boss? Whose fault is it that you are stuck using such sh_tty software? Why do you continue to use it if it is as bad as you say and the employees are involved in some conspiracy to defraud customers as Wilson implies?

Quite honestly, many people who post here don't know the software as well as they think they do. The first sign of a problem with the software, and they blame SolidWorks, when it is very likely that they just don't know the correct setting, haven't done training or looked at the help file. Your ignorance is not Solidworks fault.

Also, if you are trying to get a job done and run into a bug, what are you going to do? Whine here, and hope that SW hears you whining and wait a few weeks until they fix the software so you can start working again? No, that's not gonna happen. If you are going to finish what you have to do, you're going to have to find a new way to get there to get around the bug. I try to learn as many ways of doing things as I can, because chances are that I'm gonna need that workaround because of some bug or something that just doesn't work well in SW. So, yes, as inconvenient as it is, it is the only practical thing to be able to change the way you work.

You are speculating about something that you have no idea about. The other poster is saying what he said just for dramatic effect. He used to work at a VAR and knows full well that SolidWorks employees regularly get an earful from users. SolidWorks knows the problems with the software, and they have to sort through the ridiculous emotional crap like what you and a handful of other folks post. Here's a quote from Jon Hirschtick, former CEO of SolidWorks responding to criticism about the quality of the software: "We suck less". They know.

If you don't like it, no one is so fond of you that we won't let you move to another software (and newsgroup).

Oh, I didn't know you were such an expert. How "should" it work? How do you know it's not working? What's not working about it? How do you get your inside information? Explain how you arrived at this decision. Explain what makes you more qualified to make this judgment than the people at SW?

Armadillo Hunter

hmm... this reads like a VAR bend over and take it speech?

.. thank you sir may I have another...

Anyhow, from my perspective, balance/rewards are not in my favor what so ever.

A simple timecard reporting time expended or lost time applied towards bug reports, regressions, feature failures and feature enhancements is not a win/win for the user. unless you are a employee who gets paid regardless of the problems?

Lets not kid ourselves, user participation is generally a win/win for SW Corp and their VARS, not the user.

..

Paul:

I'm just a guy who does contract work in consumer products. I know it would fit your desire to be oppressed better if I were associated with a reseller or SW direct, sorry to disappoint. I get paid only when I succeed, which is why I work so hard at not letting software beat me. I would think in your line of work that you would know better than to waste time that doesn't bring in revenue. Why do you think spewing bile in the newsgroup is less of a waste of productivity than sending bug reports? If you weren't making more money with SW than you could with something else, why aren't you using that something else?

Armadillo Hunter

This is rich... we're supposed to take this seriously? From someone who hides behind a handle? Someone who is obviously just holding SW pom-poms?

This won't matter because I'm on your ignore list, but let's get a few things straight...

1) I own an engineering company. You're welcome to check it out by following the url indicated in my reply address (I'm not here to advertise).

2) At my office we are all high-end SW experts. Not self proclaimed. We create high end surfaces, we push sheet metal to its limits, we create vacuum formed parts that most users don't have the opportunity to envision, as well as injection molded parts, weldments, etc. etc. We do an insane amount of work in insanely short periods of time. We are at the top of our game. I don't ever ask anyone here to acknowledge that. Our clients already do. I put our expertise against anyone's, especially against app engineers and SW cheerleaders.

3) I don't come here to "get a reaction" and I don't believe Mike Wilson has ever been guilty of that. From what I can tell he's one of the most capable SW users I've ever seen from afar and his posts rarely reach into ranting. He speaks the truth but typically does it with a cool solution oriented delivery. Your comments about "Wilson" were the most offensive crap in your post... and totally off-base. Those comments alone label you an ignorant shill.

4) No, the users here do not typically blame SW whenever a problem crops up. In the midst of the small amount of bitching, venting, and chit-chat, there is an unbelievable amount of real helpful information. High end users can come here to work out surfacing and sheet metal problems and new users can come here to feel better that it's not them that's making sketches or drawings sooo slow. If you'd like verification of this, re-read the posts, paying attention at what people have tried and gone through before coming here to begin with. I have a senior engineer that submits a problem report to our VAR nearly every time we run across a problem that didn't exist in a prior version and whenever there's something that doesn't seem to have a logical solution. Our var's engineers always respond and usually end up submitting a request to SW. Our var has very capable, approachable engineers and we've developed good relationships with them. You know how many times they've come back with a legitimate work-around? Less than 25% of the time. Not because our var is lacking, which I suspect would be the next finger you point, but because we have driven SW since its introduction and know how to push it to its limits, before we ask for help. I come here to vent, to enlighten, to occasionally help or learn, or for any other purpose I deem necessary. Like it or not.

5) I've said it before, SW is still the best package out there. If there was a better option I'd probably be posting in a different group. True, they do suck less. That doesn't mean any of us should take poor performance or failing features with our shorts down. "If it's that bad, just walk away" - that's just ridiculous. Postings that try to temper peoples disdain with a bad version are frustrating. It's one thing to suggest we calm down and restate our problem but it's another thing entirely to tell us that we don't live up to your calm expectations of cheering quietly. I'd prefer to tell you that if you don't agree, you're not driving the software hard enough but that's not my place. The most frustrating thing of all... I do continually choose SW over the others because the market itself can't seem to generate a better option. Isn't that sad? That it's 2003 and they're are only 2 or 3 real choices to solid modelers for design engineers? I find that the real problem, more than SW shortcomings.

6) The beta program isn't working because, despite the overwhelming participation, the software got released with its usual crop of bugs. 2003 is more bloated and slower than 2001+ and now 2004 is more bloated and slower than 2003. They will release what they want, when they want and no beta tester is going to change that. SW needs to revamp their priority list. They are clearly prioritizing marketing ahead of performance. When features get released that don't work and software is slower than it was before something is wrong. Many of the problems with 2004 were well documented within the beta. Sure some things got "fixed" but those things were likely on the to-do list anyway. Exactly how do you feel the beta program *is* working - because you were able to see the next version ahead of GPR? Lastly, I am more qualified to say that the beta isn't working because I am a paying user and they released another pile of major marketing trash with minor improvements (shouldn't it be the other way around?).

- Eddy

thanks for the insults -if this NG activity is well beneath you, feel free to piss off somewhere else.