MR Mag Subcription Numbers are in..............

Where are all the magazines that go to book stores and hobby shops counted. Are they in the total of paid per month or in the 53,207 extra that are run. I know that a good number do get thrown away and somehow these extra copies help to get them their advertising rate but I don't know how it all works. PeteC

Or perhaps they are putting over 50,000 copies in model shops for over the counter sales?
Allen Cain

What was the all time high for subscriptions? I'm thinking it might have been about 250,000. As for the January issue I thought it was very good. Bruce

The all-time high for MR's circulation was attained in 1993, at an average of slightly over 224,000 copies per month - over 45,000 copies per month higher than currently. The magazine's circulation has declined every year since, although loss of sales has tended to level off over the past 3 years.
Contrary to what some have claimed, MR's decline is not the result of readers switching to other specialty model railroading publications since the circulation of ALL such magazines are clearly also in decline according to a recent post by a Kalmbach employee. Long-term, RMC has suffered even more than MR. Its circulation figures have dropped a startling 35% in the past 20 years!
CNJ999

No those are counted into the paid numbers. These are 'uncirculated'.
> Or perhaps they are putting over 50,000 copies in model shops for over the > counter sales? > > Allen Cain >
> > 172,732 paid per month for 2003. How does that compare to years past? > > Note the PRESS RUN is 225,939 so they are throwing over 50,000 copies > > a month in the dumpsters. > > > > No comment on the 193 page "Giant Collector > > Issue"........................ > > > > >

SNIPS
average of The bit about RMC circulation decline saddens me, because despite its occasionally strange spellings and composition (type sizes / fonts changing within an article) RMC, has what is to me, the best content of the mass market model railroading mags.
YMMV -- Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key. Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
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I doubt if they are intentionally printing 57,000 extra copies only to recycle them.
Any magazines that are spoiled would be in that number--misprints, stapled incorrectly, trimmed incorrectly, etc--but I doubt if it is even 5% or 2800.
Also in that number would be magazines that are distributed to dealers but then returned for credit. I think they only need to return the header--name of mag--from the cover. I'm not sure how that works but know one shop I frequent does it. Still, if 300 shops return 10 each that is only 3000 returns.
Of course, the magazine is available at Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc so the number of returns could be much higher than what comes back just from hobby dealers.
I suspect that the number they list as distributed for free or used for promotional purposes, 250 copies, is somewhat understated. Or maybe actually unknown.
Those are my thoughts, anyway. Bruce West Main Street Heritage Models Toss "wospam" to e-mail

=>Contrary to what some have claimed, MR's decline is not the result of readers =>switching to other specialty model railroading publications since the =>circulation of ALL such magazines are clearly also in decline according to a =>recent post by a Kalmbach employee. Long-term, RMC has suffered even more than =>MR. Its circulation figures have dropped a startling 35% in the past 20 years! => =>CNJ999
In fact, magazines of all kinds have lost readership, both in absolute numbers and as a proportion of the population. What's more, more magazines have come and gone in the least 10 years or so than in the previous 50. The fastest turnover seems to be in the computer-magazine niche, where the vast majority of rags, er, mags, that were ever published no longer exist. The decline began in the 60s - remember the woe-is-us handwringing that occurred when Life and Saturday Evevening Post died? (Their current versions are nothing like the originals.) There are of course short-term exceptions, such as Maxim and other replacements of Plaboy and Penthouse, but they won't last any longer than their predecessors did.
TV took on the role of the "general interest" magazine. The 'net is taking on the role of the "special interest" magazine - note how many people here ask for websites, not for book or magazine titles, when they have a question.
As an experienced surfer (I've visited hundreds of websites, have looked at thousands of web pages) as well as a reader of paper sources, I can tell you that paper is far more convenient - and always will be. The speed with which one can riffle through a book beats anything the 'net can offer, even when new pages appear on-screen in a fraction of second. But many people are more in love with their gadgets than with their own convenience, it seems.
Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

=>Where are all the magazines that go to book stores and hobby shops counted. =>Are they in the total of paid per month or in the 53,207 extra that are run. =>I know that a good number do get thrown away and somehow these extra copies =>help to get them their advertising rate but I don't know how it all works. =>PeteC
The copies that are thrown away are counted in the print run, but in the net circulation. In MR's case, no net monthly circulation figure is ever exact, since hobby shops keep issues for sale long after their month of issue, and can return covers for credit as late as 6 months after cover date. But over time, it averages out to a reliable number. (Other magazines have similar policies, so no current month figure is accurate until the time for returns has expired.)
Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

A follow up thought. MR is shipped in boxes of 20 to 25 Mags. I suspect that it is more cost effective for Kalmbach to sell to dealers by the box rather than individually ( "Send me two boxes" rather than "send me 42 issues" )
I also would expect that the magazines are machine counted and maybe even packed into boxes by machine. There could be quite a few extra magazines that are shipped and then returned.
Still, a press overrun of 57,000 copies, 20%, seems excessive.
Bruce West Main Street Heritage Models Toss "wospam" to e-mail

Having been in the position of buying a specialist hobby magazine from a large publisher and then having to tell the printer how many copies to print I can offer the following explaination of the large overruns.
The large publisher - one of the largest in the world - used the following method to ascertain the print run. The publisher asked the distributor how many orders they had received for that issue - then he added 5 percent to make sure that the printer didn't under-run. (The publisher believed that the printer might under-run, or even over-run, by up to 5 percent.) The publisher then conveyed his figure to the next person down the chain who added in subscription copies - plus 5 percent. This total moved down to the print buyer who added in another 5 percent. The printer, having been told that under no circumstances was he to under-run added 5 percent to make sure!
The first month under our new ownership saw a 38 tonne articulated truck draw up outside the offices with 5,000 copies of the magazine that were surplus to needs - on a circulation of around 30,000! Of course, they all had to be paid for, fortunately not by us. The system was very quicly revised by me and the printer told that we wouldn't pay for any over-runs in future.
So, you can see that it's possible to get very large over-runs if the publishers are at all lax.
Ma>

Much humorous anectdotal material SNIPPED. Thats an interesting perspective. I can readily see how each "layer" of administration wants to be sure to avoid an under run, and how that could happen with a relatively small and single item publisher, where the editirial folks wear the publishing hat as well.
But Kalmbach is a relatively big outfit (certainly not Time or Newsweek, but still not a 30,000 copy 1 publication specialty shop euther), and given the sheer number of different titles of magazines and magazine like books that Kalmbach puts out, you'd thing tht the publishing side of the house (the green eye shade pencil pushing peny pinching folks) would see the pattern with MR and others and cut the bleeding that print over runs represent.
-- Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key. Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
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The numbers are in the January edition. I don't know why they would have that many uncirculated but that is what it says unless I am reading it wrong (does 'uncirculated' mean something other than the obvious etc)?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:00:21 -0500 (EST), "Wolf Kirchmeir" But that's only when you have the book, much quicker to use the net than visit the bookstore, even if the end result is an order for Amazon. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

=>Still, a press overrun of 57,000 copies, 20%, seems excessive. => => =>Bruce West =>Main Street Heritage Models => =>Toss "wospam" to e-mail
I've looked at the figures reported by magazines sold mainly via newsstands, drugstore, etc, and their press "overruns" are around 50%. Kalmbach used to have much lower prtess overruns, but they are putting their mag into many more outlets than just hobby shops now, so they get a lot more returns.
BTW, Kalmbach's minimum dealer order is _six_ copies.
Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

=>The bit about RMC circulation decline saddens me, because despite its =>occasionally strange spellings and composition (type sizes / fonts changing =>within an article) RMC, has what is to me, the best content of the mass =>market model railroading mags. => =>YMMV =>-- =>Jim McLaughlin
RMC's small and declining circulation indicates it's anything but a "mass market" magazine.
Now if everyone who blows smoke complaining about the lack of "good articles the way they usd to be" in MR would buy a sub to RMC, I'm sure its circulation would perk up. :-)
Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

Oh, I don't know about that. I think that Dr, Carstens' "show" is second only to MR in circulatioon figures and far exceeds the Gazette, or any other railroad hobby mag except MR.
Thus, I think it is "mass market", in that it covers all aspects of the hobby, unlike, say Garden Railways or the Gazette, or the N Scale magazine.
The problem is that the rr hobby market itself is so darn small that "mass market" for the hobby is miniscule by the standards of say, Time, or Newsweek, or Macleans.
And, yes, I do subscribe to RMC, but to MR.
-- Jim McLaughlin
Please don't just hit the reply key. Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
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Not so. The boxes I get into the shop contain the specific numbers I have on standing orders. Depending on the magazine this is from 6-32. I have a good inventory system that tracks sales historically an I add or subtract accordingly. Kalmback ships in boxes because it's convenient to them and generaly the retailer. I get most assorted magazines delivered together in boxes. Might be 6 of one and 10 of another.
Dave

For the 12 months from October 2001 - September 2002: Yearly Average Sales: 50,761 Subscription: 128,695 Free distribution: 278 Copies not dsitributed: 53,333 Total Distribution: 233,067
The average run for the year prior to that was 237,196 copies.
Can someone report the latest circulation figures for RMC? I asked for this figure in the past and no one replied -- it must be part of a vast conspiracy.