Dorset Fair – Why all the criticism?

Noticeable at Portland were the very large notices saying "No Camping on the Showground" and "No Sale Items on the Display Areas".

Only Gazebos were allowed to cover engines and exhibitors, absolutely no tents, camper vans, caravans or junk on the floor, just engines and tractors.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

Hi, We take an 8 ton roller that is powered by a single cylinder Ruston CSB diesel i.e. not a pot boiler on castors. We are usually offered a low loader at the organiser's expense. Most times we cover our own costs as the rallies we do are aimed at specific charities and anything paid to exhibitors is coming out of the charity pot.

At a recent rally we had a long talk with the organiser about other things we could bring next year and whether or not we would take one of the larger horizontal engines (7 ton Ruston). His attitude was that he would be happy to help toward costs of bringing a large/interesting exhibit as anything like that makes the event more interesting to the general public, even if it is a stationary. Whether you like it or not most people think stationary engines are boring and the engine line up is one of the least populated areas at any rally.

That is down to the people exhibiting and nobody else. If you make the effort to take a display rather than an engine you will get interest. It doesn't matter how rare an engine is, the average person is not interested unless it is part of a well presented display that means something to them. We have some large and rare engines here at the museum but non-enthusiasts are far more interested in the smaller engines that are being placed in an "original" setting driving machinery and surrounded by period paraphernalia (when we've finished).

True, not everyone has the transport to take larger displays but you can still make a smaller exhibit more interesting with a few period bits and pieces, a good technical description, a board showing recovery/restoration and another board showing the engine/similar engines doing a job of work. Every single person coming round the museum takes the time to read the display boards on the engines and when they ask questions don't ask about "the Ruston 9H" they ask about the engine that used to work on the marshes and repaired by the lawnmower man. It's the things around and about the engine that hold the interest.

Paul

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Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)

Chris, I am not trying to back you into a corner just trying as you are to get my point over that we are all in the hobby of restoring things but its a bit like communism "everybody is equal except some are more equal than others" :-)) at this point I will let you out of the corner and put my teeth back in their box :-))

Paul has just said very eloquently what my point is and I think what Roland and one or two others have eluded too.

I do not think that it is the shows that have problems as such, rather that the people exhibiting need to alter their way of thinking. Then maybe all areas will be treated more fairly.

Less rubbish on display would really help our cause and make the hobby less of a joke in some areas.

Regards

Chris Bedo Kent UK

I hope it's not regarded as a joke but we do tend to forget that many people can't quite sees the point while almost everyone seems to gaze in admiration at traction engines etc whether or not they are actually doing anything.

This was brought home to me a few days ago when I was in our stores packing up some Alco parts to send to Kim's friend in Scotland. One of the storemen came up and asked what these mysterious bits of oily iron were. I explained and he said "oh yes, I saw them at the Uxbridge Auto Show - pop, pop, pop all day, what's that all about then?". I don't think he is particularly a car enthusiast but was quite happy to spend a day out looking at rows of 'classics', but when it came to the Northolt Historic Engine Club's little display (in a prime position by the way, right by the main entrance) - nothing!

I always think that steam attracts interest because it is impressive. Usually large, powerful, graceful machines from a bygone age.

The same can be said of some stationary engines, but not I am afraid of all. While a 18hp S type, or 10hp Horsnby may be a wonderful sight, a Villiars ticking over will never be regarded as impressive to many people.

Not everyone can have a big engine driving a wonderfully interesting item I know, but that is the standard that needs to be aimed at. If people don?t have that much space, then they have to use other means of making their own exhibit interesting to the public. Items such as shearing gear, sawbenches, mills etc give people a chance to see an engine doing something, and then they can relate to it, just like they can relate to a classic car etc.

Rgds

Chris Bedo

Hmmm... I seem to recollect saying something awfully similar a year or so ago :-))

Kind regards,

Peter

Peter Forbes Prepair Ltd Luton, UK email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk home: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Paul, Unfortunately you are talking to the converted here because we have many times discussed this in the past and I know from personal experience most engine people just can't be bothered, present company excepted, to them it is just something else they have to carry be it a pump or description of thier exhibit. I belong to a Club that can't be bothered to the point that I wrote an open letter for the news letter knocking two individuals who think that they are doing the club a favour by being on the committee. they are so thick skinned that they cannot see that others would willingly take over if they came off but the club as usual wants an easy life so they stay. So Ive done the next best thing and joined another club and over time I shall frequent the new club more than the old by which time the old club will disapear up its own orofice. Sad really but nobody cares or wants to go forward and that is what is happening to the country as a hole and that is not a spelling mistake. Have you also noticed, and this is aimed at everybody who reads this, that there are very few if any youngsters involved any more, I have my views on that but I think I will let some others stir the mud as I have done my share this week.

Martin P

Hi Martin, Not really as this thread has moved into an us and them and they get paid - why?

The question asked was why they get paid.

They get paid because they provide a better product in the public's eye not just because steam engine costs money to run. I've seen engines displayed by people within this newsgroup and whilst they are good displays they are still not the sort of display that a rally organiser would class as a money spinner/get 'em through the gate - and I don't mean that to sound the way it probably does. In the last 10 years I can only think of half a dozen engine exhibits that really made me stop and look

Out of that half a dozen there is only one where I can remember the detail ( a small laundry display), the others I remember seeing and roughly when and the fact that I was interested.

I can think of dozens of others though with steam shovels, steam cranes, tractor & machinery displays, running over the policemans bike with a steam roller, etc etc.

Can you name any spectacular stationary engine displays?

We may be converted but possibly are not converted enough. It depends on what you want achieve when you are at a rally. Are you there to have a pleasant afternoon with fellow engine enthusiasts, are you there to demonstrate the technical excellence of your rare engine to fellow anoraks or have you presented a display that will entertain the crowds of onlookers and perhaps educate them a little. It's the latter the organisers will want again and again.

Sorry if I've repeated myself and upset anybody but if anyone else comes in this week and says "oh look there's one of those little Lister things AND IT'S RUNNING A SHEEP SHEARER - WOW IS THAT WHAT THEY DID" :-(

Paul

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Internal Fire, Museum of Power, Wales

(under construction)

I have never meant it to be an us and them I just as I do threw in a stone to count the ripples and so far it has made people look at what they want or expect of a rally. What ever happens the Stationary Engine lot will always be treated as second best because we are a necessary evil that will not go away. I always point out "no internal combustion engine no tractor" we are always second best to them also, whoops another stone just fell in the water :-))

Regards

Martin P

< Big, big Snip > ( Lister powered of course ) < 1970's puppet show mode >

This is the voice of your public. We know you can hear us Enginemen. ( and women, sorry! )

Yes Woburn Rally in its hay day and Tatton Park

Absolutely agree and if my earlier remarks were merely "allusive" then I'm losing my touch :-) I've been looking out for 50vdc kit for some years and come up blank. Any hordes for disposal out there ? Motors, irons, arc lamps, pumps, cattle prods, ritual disembowelling tools WHY etc etc...???? regards Roland

If I might offer a view from a newcomer to the SE world, I have to say that Pauls comments ring true. I have always had an interest in engines (of all varieties) and I still vividly remember the first time I saw SE's at a small village show in Cumbria (just a few Listers and Wolseleys with a couple of horizontals). These were fascinating to me - simple workhorses on which you could really

*see* the IC process in action. I said to myself on that day that I would have one of those, and (some five years later!), here I am with my first Lister D (and pump to restore). However, (I will get to the point soon honestly) I think we are deluding ourselves if we think that these engines have real mass appeal. - If I mention my engine to my friends and colleagues, the first thing they say is 'ooh, you've got a STEAM engine'. I then patiently explain what SE's actually are and what I've got, and they usually give me a blank look and say 'why?' - I'm now seen as some sort of harmless eccentric by most of my friends (which I quite enjoy actually!). Now these people *would* pay to see the spectacle of live steam - noise, fog, big bits of heavyweight rotating machinery and men stoking boilers etc, etc, but SE's are just an unknown. Even when they are educated as to their purpose and why we do what we do, they just don't fire the general public up (if you'll excuse the awful pun) in the same way that steam does. In the main, in addition to preserving an important part of our industrial heritage, I think we do what we do for ourselves (and there is nothing wrong in that - I'll be touting my lowly Lister and pump around the local rallies next year) and that we will have to accept that we'll never attract as many paying punters as the steam crowd. There - apologies for the ramble and if I've spoken out of place and offended anyone - certainly not my intention.

best Matt

Spot on Matt.

"Paul Evans" wrote (snip):-

For better or worse I believe the first two options will always predominate.

I was happy with the attendance plaque and the occasional "gift" - I got a set of grips at Carrington Park which lasted me for many many years.

Brian L Dominic

NB Rumpus

Web Sites: NB Rumpus:

Friends of the Cromford Canal: Mid-Derbyshire Light Railway: I may work for British Waterways, but my opinions are my own.

As a practicing ring commentator, I would agree with the above. Don't expect us to be experts on everything - I don't hesitate to get more "expert" guest commentators to commentate on specialised displays (like military vehicles) but by doing this, I learn more for the next time. I also make sure I have a radio mike, so I can do a "wander" round the showground and look at the static exhibits, including the engines.

I'll be at Weston Hall near Burton on Trent this weekend...........

Brian L Dominic

NB Rumpus

Web Sites: NB Rumpus:

Friends of the Cromford Canal: Mid-Derbyshire Light Railway: I may work for British Waterways, but my opinions are my own.