Indian Lister

Very variable quality, lots of horror stories about sand in the engines on delivery etc etc, but there are also some good ones.

It is a bit of a cottage industry in India, with small casting shops turning out the castings and similar places doing the machining etc.

No one company seems to do all the work, and they buy bits from whoever supplies at the cheapest price.

Castings come from melted down scrap in most cases.

There is a section in there devoted to the clones.

Peter

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e:

I see there is a lot more of this going on than I realised. India sounds in some ways similar to 60 or more years ago in this country - though they seem to pick on one design and stick to it (like the Royal Enfield or Morris Oxford). I suppose they have just the same reasons for needing small versatile engines as this country did way back, and the reasons for the old low tech designs being so attractive is that they can make and repair them easily. I think I prefer that to the high tech society we have.

Steve

I don't know about stationary engine quality but I have some fairly awful casting quality on my Winfield lathe.

I see one for sale on eBay now starting at £15, and at £185 last time I looked (item 250148716594).

Any comments ? I'm just curious.

Steve

It would appear that the first thing needed doing to one is a complete strip and rebuild. There seems to be all sorts of stories regarding repeated head gasket failures (on some CS clones) due to the deletion of some studs.

Here's the site that deals with the clones or 'Listeroids'

Julian

As Peter implies, it's all a matter of quality control. I'm pretty sure Mark Walker is the proprietor of Volvox Engineering:-

though I can't speak from personal experience, seems to have a good reputation with some of the alternative energy groups. So one would hope that he ensures his engines are up to scratch before selling them on.

Nick H

I see there is a lot more of this going on than I realised. India sounds in some ways similar to 60 or more years ago in this country - though they seem to pick on one design and stick to it (like the Royal Enfield or Morris Oxford). I suppose they have just the same reasons for needing small versatile engines as this country did way back, and the reasons for the old low tech designs being so attractive is that they can make and repair them easily. I think I prefer that to the high tech society we have.

Steve

A similar idea to this was used by the Danish Firm "FF" in Bjerringbro, (Sometimes called "Farmers Friend in English speaking countries) When these were made Pre-war they used the piston,valves,rods & many other bits from a popular car of the period. Different engine sizes used a different car engine for spares. They used this to get sales as farmers realised they could replace damaged bits cheaper than the exalted spare prices other manufacturers used.

Gentlemen,

See this months Stationary Engine, there is an article about one this month, it broke to cranks in six months and is now running on an original Lister crank.

Isn't the 5-1 or 6-1 offered as (something like) a 9-1? They just rev the poor thing up to about 1200 revs and give the mains some roller bearings - I'd not be wanting to stand close to one given the reports regarding flywheels with huge casting voids filled with puty!

Julian

Strange, I was just reading that a complete strip and rebuild is what is needed for the Sieg X3 mill when you buy a new one (or so they say on the Arc Euro website) - seems there is a lot of it about !

I wonder how they get on with the diesel injector pump - thats rather a precise bit of engineering for a cottage industry.

Steve

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Warrington

Dave,

I rather like that idea, though I suppose you could just use the whole car or bike engine in the first place and save the messing around. I wonder what concoctions could be knocked up using the bits available these days.

Steve

Reminds me of the Ferguson - Standard Vanguard connection. Those in the know used to go to the Fergie dealer for their piston & liners etc for their Vanguards and Triumphs. No sales tax on tractor spares in those days. BE shells fitted Jags too.

Tom

My brother in Law worked on the fairgrounds a few years back and his employer was always 'knocking up generating sets' from whatever happened to be available and selling them to a pretty broad customer base. He had the right kind of reputation

The stuff to power the rides was real heavy duty kit, but car and bike engines from all kinds of scrapped sources found themselves mounted onto a rough angle iron frame with a welded skid plate and a drag handle for selling to 'outsiders'. I dare say a lot of these anonymous units are still chugging away on isolated farms, or running compressors in 'paint shops'.

Our landlord on the caravan site in the mid fifties used to do the same. He'd scrap an old car - usually black or green in those days - but turn the engine into a generator. It was great watching him 'quarter 'a wreck for scrap using his cutting torch. One day we saw him blown across the yard when he cut through a petrol tank and I learned some Irish Tinker cuss words which Dad - who recognised them from his Irish Navvies - forbade me to use in front of Mum.

His son now supplies and maintains power supply units for the film industry, powering everything from the arc lights to the star's champagne chiller and heated eyebrow curlers in her Winnebago.

Funny, but electrical expertise seems to run in some families.

Gyppo

Many years ago a friend of mine ran a TR3A. We were both entered in an event just after his holiday. Unfortunately, the TR crank broke a few days before he was due to leave. While he was away I hunted for a replacement. Money was very tight being a student so a genuine one was out. I found a Vanguard in a breakers yard and asked about the crank but the owner wanted it for his grey Fergie. I told him that we needed it for this event and it was out chance at the hat trick of wins so he lent it to me. I took it out of the vanguard complete with carefully numbered shells and put it in the TR. A quick blast to Donnington and back secured the required win. The crank was duly returned to it's owner and was subsequently installed in his tractor.

More recently I saw a picture of a grey Fergie with a TR3 engine fitted. As the Fergie was limited to 2200rpm giving a top speed of

25mph, the 5000rpm of the TR engine meant 55mph was theoretically avaible. That on Fergie steering and rear wheel brakes must have made for an exiting ride.

John

I hope you did the decent thing and painted it before returning it? :-)

A Fergie 24 was rated 13.75 mph @ 2000 rpm, 2200 rpm =15.125.(Tractor Specs BK) The cylinder head had minuscule ports compared to the car engine, but with the lower comp, gave great torque down low. >

back in the 50s. Of course Allis Chalmers had been there (70 mph) in 1930 with their first rubber tyred tractor and started a craze of tractor racing during the depression. Tom

Tom

A mate of mine (a banger racer) said Masseys went a lot faster on a big hill if you stuck them in neutral, especially with a big load behind. He used to help out with the hay, and the logging, but I am not sure if they ever knew quite how quick he was moving things along.

But I like this parts interchangeability theme...I had a V50 Guzzi motorbike and the starter motor solenoid kept jamming - I had to push start it for months. The replacement was a fortune (and I was a student), but my father found it was the same Bosch unit that was fitted to a small Fiat, and that way it was cheap as chips.

I wonder if Indian diesel injector pumps are cheap as chips and can be used to resurrect old diesels ?

Steve

Mico are a licencee of Bosch, but are not allowed (officially) to sell poroduct outside of India and Pakistan.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

"Peter A Forbes" wrote

The key word being 'officially' Eg:-

Nick H

Sorry, I thought I'd linked directly to the relevant page but it is one of those framey things. Click "Lister CS type engine spares" on the left and look about 2/3 the way down the page - still the thick end of £100 for an injection pump though.

Nick H

"Dave Croft" wrote

ISTR reading (probably in SEM) about an American marine engine which used Ford Model T piston, 'rod and valves for the very reason that the widespread availability of replacement parts would make life easy for their customers in far flung corners of the 'States. I believe other companies may have done the same as I also recall an otherwise unmarked engine being provisionally identified as a 'very rare' Ford SE as the tell-tale oval logo was to be found on some internal componants.

Nick H

Then there was the Church V8 air-cooled aircraft engine which used standard Ford side valve crankshaft, pistons, rods, carburetor and ignition etc.

Tom