Paraffin!!

Some months ago at a local NVTEC club meeting, it was announced that HM Customs and Excise were trying to assess nationally how many tractors there were capable of using TVO/paraffin, and how many of these were used on public roads. Motives for the assessment were not given. It was pointed out that as the show field now has the same legal status as public roads for RTA purposes, ALL (No exceptions) internal combustion engine propelled equipment should be run on an appropriate duty paid fuel while on any part of the show field. Tractor drivers were advised that travelling on the road to shows by tractor,(even to participate in a ploughing match), or on a tractor run, is not classed as "agricultural purposes" by HM C&E, so a duty paid fuel should be used at all times. Even actually ploughing at a match could be considered as part of the "show" rather than part of the land owner's normal agricultural activity. Some tractor owners admitted to using a heating oil "mix" in the past.

At shows, or indeed anywhere, stationary diesel engines can be run on red diesel, new/used cooking or veg/sunflower derived oils, and petrol generators can run on paraffin, propane,etc., on which no road fuel duty needs to be paid, so as long as it is "stationary". So why the club ban on heating oil for stationary engines? The two engine clubs I subscribe to do not see a problem for stationary engines.

Regards, Dave Carter.

The requirement to use duty-paid fuel at events is based upon the definition that it is "a place of public resort" and it is quite likely that HM Customs & exercise are wrong in this assessment. That said, it is probably not worth the effort of challenging their ruling unless anyone was bored with the winter before them & were looking for a cause celebre!

A place of public resort (PoPR) is - for instance - a cinema or supermarket carpark & certainly the Road Traffic Act does apply in such places. Just as well for the old dear that sprang a Diesel pump & rolled her car the other day!

In the case of an event, the public have no right of access & must pay to come in. The car park set up for their use becomes a PoPR, but once they leave that area & enter the showground proper, the act no longer applies and we enter a very grey area where 14 year olds (etc) can drive tanks and steam rollers in some places (the arena) and not others (access roads). Road Tax is not required & in such a case, I fail to see how HM Customs could say that red Diesel cannot be used. Agricultural it is not, but it isn't road use either.

Interesting thread .............

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn, Regia Anglorum

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Nope, I'm wrong. Look here.........

False premise!

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn, Regia Anglorum

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The use of red diesel is governed by the type of vehicle. See the HM Customs web site notice here.

see the last paragraph here. I read it, untaxed fuel CAN be used in stationary engines. Road vehicles must satisfy certain conditions before being allowed to use untaxed fuel even off road. If a tractor has a current tax disk, it can only use red diesel when in use as an agricultural machine. Agricultural shows do fall within this use so red is out.

John

I accept that it's possible to prove what burned but I doubt that quantities can be ascertained. We're not talking huge volumes after all. The difference between even 20 and 40 gallons is small unless the remains of a container are found. I agree it's not a case I would like to fight though.

John

I wonder if it could it be to with the vat. Doesn't oil sold for heating use have vat at 4% but for other uses it's

17.5%? That'll be on top of any excise tax of course!

Rojja

Yes, forgot about that. Oil for domestic heating has VAT at 5%, just like domestic gas and electricity. BUT paraffin sold in the sheds or garages will have VAT at 17.5%. I bet if you bought heating oil direct from a bulk supplier you could get the VAT charged at 17.5%.

In message , philipte writes

Philip,

If you'd like a few litres of kero (28-second domestic heating oil), I'm sure I could manage something. I have a 600 gallon tank of the stuff. Current price about 30p a litre or 1.35 GBP a gallon.

All the best

Pete

Just read this again and it looks wrong. Agricultural shows are NOT agricultural use so red is out.

Untaxed, unregistered or SORN declared vehicles can still use red as they're off road.

That's better.

John

This is correct, but only when the vehicle is in use on the road. They are exempt when involved in agricultural tasks and travelling ON THE ROAD. Shows and events are normally held on private land, or public land, but not on adopted roads.

The regulations can surely only require that DERV (Diesel Engine RAOD VEHICLE) fuel be required when on the road.

Off road it is not reasonable to be expected to pay a tax for road use when not using it on the road.

I noticed that the fitting of dual tanks is illegal, but this would surely be to prevent red diesel being used on the road with the potential to switch tanks and remove any evidence instantly. If only one tank is fitted then if red diesel is used it will be detectable.

I don't see anything in the regulations that says you can't use red diesel off road.

Alan

Nope, I'm wrong....

Seems if you pay vehicle tax you pay excise duty unless you can fit into the very limited exemptions.

Never know a government to be such obvious tax cheats.

Alan

I was in Northern Ireland last week, where gas is almost unknown so nearly everyone has oil heating. I noticed that many local garages were selling emergency "run out of heating oil" refill packs -- a 20l plastic drum of 28sec oil.