Rallying gas turbines

I believe that the hollow wide chord blades to which you refer are made from

Paul.

And there you have the problem in a nutshell, how can any rally organiser possibly know that the person wanting to exhibit a gas turbine has the skill or resources to make such decisions, and what are the potential consequences of running with "iffy" blades... Greg

True. Just as an aside, I doubt you would ever get an RB211 sized engine on a rally field. Firstly you'd need a start cart - generally a large roots blower with a 300hp Diesel V8 driving it. And then there was a reported case of a farmer who strayed behind one of these things with his tractor and trailer - the jet blast picked it all up and moved it into another field (about 15 tons worth maybe!) God knows how you'd safely anchor such and engine down to soft soil?

Julian

No I doubt any one would even try with such a large engine, but I don't think any GT beyond the tiny engines being used in model aircraft belong in unskilled hands, certainly not in front of the public. Frankly I doubt it's an issue as no rally organiser with two grey cells to rub together would be daft enough to allow anything other than a static exhibit. I've seen a Merlin with home made prop at a couple of rallies but thankfully there was no attempt to run it, an airshow is the place to hear a Merlin in song and there are enough oportunities for anyone. Greg

Gentlemen, When I was a young sprog and in the Air Cadets our local Air Bases where Mildenhall, Lakenheath, Benttwaters, Honnington and Wattisham to name but a few. We had many weekend visits to Mildenhall and the Service crew there used to tell us that a KC135, Boeing 707 in civil form, could remove your outer garments when winding up to taxi if you got to close. The best thing I ever saw there was a lump of timber between the blades to stop a Galaxy engine free wheeling in the wind. On my weekends I could see F100,s then F111's, Stratocruisers, KC135's, Hercules by the score C141's, A10's, CH53's and Galaxy's and anything else passing through including Wild Weasel Phantom's, Starfighter's,Widow Makers, and during the week I could see Lightnings's then Phantoms, Buccaneer's, Harriers and Hunters.

Good thread!

Whilst at Bristol Siddeley Engines, there was a story about that a Whitehall gent who stepped out from under the wing of the Vulcan we used as a flying test bed for the Olly 593D. He was whisked off his feet and down the intake he went, brolly, hat, briefcase 'n all. Apparently he retrieved somewhat the worse for wear, having been fortunate enough to fall across the divider. The Ollys ate his hat, but he maintained a firm grip upon his brolly & briefcase (well, he would, wouldn't he) thus avoiding scrapping at least one engine.

I bet he still dines out on the story !

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

Shocking!!!

Hiya Philip,

WELL DONE!! Deep down inside I knew you lads had the bottle for something like this!!

See ya, Arnie

A very good friend of mine was a tech back in the days of the Lightning (or blessed memory). He told me how one day he was working on the radar which involved him mounting a step ladder and half inserting himself into the air intake so as to reach the back of the radome. While he was there someone else working on the beast started up the rotary converter. To John it sounded suspiciously, and terrifyingly, like the fuel pump being run up. He exited from the air intake feet first, horizontally, and finally regained terra firma about 9 feet the right side of his step ladder.

"no rally organiser with two grey cells to rub together would be daft enough to allow anything other than a static exhibit."

Turbines have been running on rally fields for years. Remember a couple some 10-12 years back. In the south, possibly close to Reading -- Woodcote, Littlewick Green or Lambourn stir the grey cells slightly. One was run on the grass, many times during the day. Another was run balanced on the tailgate of a Land Rover ....... Possibly Rovers, seem to remember one as a generator.

May have pix, but goodness knows where as they were not my scene -- reminiscent of far too many APU's as a young chap. I moved from them as soon as possible, & sat next to some quiet old chuffer .........

Also just been reading an ad for Perkins portable turbine generators in Flight World Airlines issue of 1962. Probably a cube about 2ft 6" by 2ft 6" by 3ft. Easy to move. About 60 years too new for me, &

Colin

For better or worse, what was perfectly acceptable 10-12 years ago is often totally unacceptable under the present health and safety/liability culture we live in today. Greg

Whilst not being a great supporter of H&S, the logic that says 'we got away with it once so it's OK to do it again' doesn't hold with me. I'm sure we can all look back at things we did years ago but wouldn't consider today. We were lucky then, let's not push it.

John

A big event would have a demonstration arean where traction engines and the like would display. Would it be feasable to have a special demo where such as a Merlin or gas turbine were taken into the middle of said arena and demo'd there. If a suitable arena is big enough the risk would be no worse than a old Aveling bursting in the same place. Subject of course to the operator being able to prove the fitness of the engine and restriction on engine speed to reduce noise.

You do make a valid point in that aero engines don't quite fit into the usual vintage rally categories. The Merlin is without question the most famous aero engine and the non engineering minded public can still appreciate one. Especially if it has a traceable history of wartime use. If it's fine technology enabled a airman to save himself and his aircraft then it damn well ought to be allowed to be worshipped.

Unfortunately the bits can, and have, gone for 1/2 mile. That puts the arena in the next county. Proving the fitness of GT's is the main problem. X ray and ultrasonic tests arn't cheap and they're just the tip of the iceberg. Merlins aren't a problem. If things go wrong at 1500 rpm with a piston engine, most bits are contained as they're inside a substantial lump of metal. GT's at 20,000 rpm are a different matter. They're inside a few thin bits of alloy.

John

Having removed a RR Meteor (unblown Merlin variant) that spat had 5 rods out of bed, I would suggest that the resultant shrapnel would equated to quite a few grenades, fortunately it was contained by 56 tons of steel (Centurion). The engine still ran, sort of, the tank commander had radioed in about a miss and loss of power. :-)

Tom

I went to a car show last year at Broadlands in Hampshire. They had a G/T drag racer there and it was demonstrated in the centre of the arena. They had it chained to four ground stakes and a very heavy 8 wheel drive recovery truck. The closest members of the public were at least 100ft away. Something similar for a static engine would be OK for an engine/steam show but probably additional insurance would be required.

I've seen these raced at Elvington, where the Hampster lost it, and in front of many thousands of people. The difference is that they are being run by a professional outfit who know their onions, not someone moving up from a Lister D 8-). Greg

What worried me most was the home made or at least butchered wooden prop he had on the front of the thing, and the very frail looking trailer he had botched it onto.

As many thousands so each year at proper airshows, there are about a dozen Spits and Huricanes doing the show circuit. Greg

When I worked at Bristol Siddeleys in the early 60's, the Centaurus & Hercules engines were still being reconditioned at Two Shop in Patchway. I was lurking about there one day chatting piston engines to a fitter when a herd of top brass swept into sight.

An RAF type with a good deal of scrambled egg on his hat & jacket veered off & approached with a grin. "Damn me" quoth he "Herkies. One of these brought me back from Berlin with four cylinders shot off. It used a lot of oil, but I only shut it down when I saw the landing lights." Pats same in reminiscence. "Still in production after all these years." Nods cheerfully & moves off to talk jets with office types.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn