The fate of specialist magazines

Depends on what they do and what income is available for 'hobby' purchases.

Once the family have left home and before retirement, most people have a better income level than at any other time of their life, and if they elect to continue working, then they obviously have a much better level than if they had retired.

Below that age, family interests, house mortgage etc etc are major drains on income, and job security isn't what it used to be. I have been through the redundancy hoop once, back in the very early 1980's and I know Nick had a major wobble a year or so ago, and it isn't much fun at all.

If you have more than one hobby.....

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

(snip) >> wonder if stationary engine enthusiasts fall into the target catagory >> of "activities which involve buying lots of kit":-

PA> Depends on what they do and what income is available for 'hobby' PA> purchases.

PA> Once the family have left home and before retirement, most people have PA> a better income level than at any other time of their life, and if PA> they elect to continue working, then they obviously have a much better PA> level than if they had retired.

PA> Below that age, family interests, house mortgage etc etc are major PA> drains on income, and job security isn't what it used to be. I have PA> been through the redundancy hoop once, back in the very early 1980's PA> and I know Nick had a major wobble a year or so ago, and it isn't much PA> fun at all.

PA> If you have more than one hobby.....

PA> Peter

Yes, it was a worrying time, particularly as Helen and I both worked for the same outfit. Should be ahead of the game really not having kids and still being on the same rung of the property ladder I first stepped on to over fifteen years ago, but I can't say I feel particulary 'prosperous'. I think the stationary engine hobby can be enjoyed by people with a wide range of disposable incomes and its adherents do tend to be less 'gear heads' than some others, so perhaps SEM is unlikely to find itself an acquisition target

nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8

We are both older and wiser now, and have not splurged out on jumping up the property ladder either, so we'll have virtually no mortgage left by this time next year, and will look at some house mod's which have been waiting for over 20 years!

I have to confess that I cannot put my finger on where things are going at present, things are far too much in flux for my liking. We had our Bank manager up today for his annual visit, and while we are pretty healthy as far as the company goes, it can all change so quickly and go the other way.

Kelsey have a niche market, and that is their biggest strength and also weakness. If they can keep the specialist side of things going well, then longer-term they will be OK, but as they found with the Marine Engine spin-off, it is so easy to over-extend, and end up pulling the magazine for lack of support.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

(snip) PA> Kelsey have a niche market, and that is their biggest strength and PA> also weakness. If they can keep the specialist side of things going PA> well, then longer-term they will be OK, but as they found with the PA> Marine Engine spin-off, it is so easy to over- extend, and end up PA> pulling the magazine for lack of support.

PA> Peter

Marine Engine is now a section within SEM (I know you don't currently subscribe) and though I initially had some doubts, it fits in pretty well.

nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8

Yes, I have the issue where it came back into the main magazine. I think I stopped subscribing in 2002.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

Peter,

You w>

"campingstoveman" wrote:-

Most enjoyable Martin - Dan's "I don't do boats" comment still makes me laugh (not that I have ventured on to as much as a pedalo for many years!).

Mick H

Nope, but I have noted quite a few letters etc from you and Nick in back issues.

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

"Peter A Forbes" wrote (snip):-

Probably, but there are a few telling passages in the article which point the way that specialist publishing is going. For instance; "There is no point imagining that online and offline should be at war, says Harkness. Where else would you go to find your client in the world we live in today than via the web?" and "The formula is the same for every new charge. Each magazine is plugged into a genuine community website, where enthusiasts swap photos and news, shop for the kit and trawl through the product review archives. Failing print products have not only increased advertising revenues, but total subscriber numbers."

I'm not suggesting that it is any way a 'failing print product' but I'd certainly like to see a 'genuine community website' sprung off the back of SEM.

Nick H.

A certain "informed comment" on this matter makes the point that they are more concerned with advertising revenue than much else & the community websites are the outlet for that advertising. I do feel the Internet is a marketing tool without paralell & we (as in the hobby) ought to be paying more attention to it. Many of us Custodians of Rusty Iron are approaching their sell by date and as they become less able to deal with the heavy great things, we'll see less of them. It has been said before that this and the ever rising cost of fuel is probably why we are seeing fewer and fewer larger engines on the rally circuit these days.

I feel that the hobby is at a turning point & it feels very similar to the imminent collapse of the "ancient crafts" crisis in the early 70's. At that time no-one had the least interest in becoming a thatcher, cooper, shoemaker, saddler, wheelwright etc, etc & we were literally within a few years of a whole raft of old crafts dying with the last masters of their craft. The Heritage Movement - in which I became involved in 1980 - was just in time to capture the attention of handy young people with just an office job to look forward to & changed many, many lives - mine included!

I do feel we should be doing more to attract the attention of the younger element who can no longer fix their car or motorbike by the roadside on a Sunday afternoon & might be looking elsewhere for an oily pastime. A community website on the back of the SEM site could only do us all good, Kelsey, you, me et al.

regards,

Kim Siddorn

"Kim Siddorn" wrote (snip):-

I certainly don't imagine Magicalia's motivation is a desire to provide a public service. Everything has to be paid for in this world and if this is what it takes to keep interesting and useful publications such as Model Engineer on the shelves then so be it. Though, as I mentioned, I'm not sure that the stationary engine hobby attracts the kind of gear heads that make the business model described viable.

I find it pretty much impossibe to analyse my own attraction to tinkering with lumps of old oily iron and even harder to convey that attraction to anyone else - just seems to be something you either get or don't get. But a really vibrant web site would at least let the 'internet generation' know that there are idiots out there that indulge in such passtimes and perhaps awaken in some of them a previously unrecognised desire (shades of Frank Zappa's 'latent appliance fetishist')!

Nick H

Having been criticised in the past (not here I should add) for being a computer guy interested in engines, rather than an engine guy interested in computers, I find Kim's comment interesting.

Running three large websites now, I don't have that much spare time to play with hardware, although the interest is still strong.

Internet interest is what it is, there is so much information available now that anyone can pick up (as per my other post last week) information on engines from a miriad of sites and forums, and while there is a lack of very specialist stuff, the main limitation seems to be the laziness of the viewer rather than enough not being available.

Gordon Wright was pretty anti towards the internet at one point, he may have changed these days, but where there is a commercial need to produce money, you'll never get the same interest or material available.

As an aside:

I had an enquiry yesterday about a Spanish engine called "Matacas", seemingly quite involved in vehicular engines and the like, but they also produced a zonking great marine diesel.

Found a private Spanish website which might be of interest to others, I haven't seen it before:

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/dieselhttp://www.stationary-engine.co.ukhttp://www.oldengine.co.uk Hi Peter,

That link brings up a big NOT FOUND for me - maybe so many people have hit it that it has collapsed.

Do you think the magazines these days actually have people involved who relate to the topic ? I think if we felt they did, then we could see the necessary expense required for the magazine to survive as OK, however if we think it is being run for purely commercial gain, then our reaction is far more negative.

Maybe the truth has always been some of one and some of the other, but as the community shrinks then maybe the publishers are faced with severe problems that we are not very sympathetic to.

As for getting young people in, well maybe the pendulum will swing back. Right now the banks are laying people off, and engineers are in demand again as a whole generation hits retirement age (I am in a major oil company). Also I admire the young people who truly modify their cars, rebuilding engines altering suspension and re-programming ECUs (even annoying me in the same way I used to annoy people when I was young) - there are still people out there with mechanical sympathies. We still have more and more steam railways in this country

- not less.. and I am sure that there are young people among the passengers.

In a way we need a new Fred Dibner, a man who makes you proud to have made something work by your own ability, proud to have mucky hands! I wonder who would serve ...

Steve

Dunno, did the same for me today as well, but it WAS there yesterday, promise!

I went back to Google and found the same link and checked in case I has mis-copied, but it is fine.

Maybe they have exceeded their bandwidth or something like that.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk