What attracts non-enthusiasts to rallies?

Nick,

Surely you have just answered your own question in the previous thread :-))

Mart> Following on from the 'Engine Photographs' thread.

"Campingstoveman" wrote > Nick,

Sometimes talking to yourself is the only way to get a sensible conversation ;-)

OT I suppose, but I have found on numerous occasions that when I have spent hours trying to sort out some problem (usually computer) that when I ask for help in the pub & manage to tell them exactly what the problem is, I usually see the obvious answer myself.

-- Dave Croft Warrington England

Diversity.

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn,

"Kim Siddorn" wrote:-

Diversity - a system of radio reception in which the outputs of several antennae and receivers are combined to counteract the effects of selective fading.

Sorry about that interlude!

And how much does the presence of SE's contribute to that diversity in terms of average punter pulling power?

Nick,

You should know Kim by now, I think its his way of saying that we are all in ageement from different angles or he is bored. :-))

Mart> "Kim Siddorn" wrote:-

"Campingstoveman" wrote

You're probably right, but I bet I'm more bored than he is. If this keeps up I'll have to do some work ;-)

I apologise for inflicting this largely pointless thread on you - now not only raking over old coals, but riddling the ashes in search of combustible material. I can only put it down to boredom.

Precisely! The addition of a line up of stationary engines probably makes almost no difference to a notional gate figure for an average steam rally. But they've always been there, there is a strong agricultural connection, they cost nothing, make up the numbers and fill the odd corner/fence line.There are contributors here who have been exhibiting far longer than I, but I believe I'd be right in saying that the SE are the first to be shifted to a less well frequented spot as soon as that space can be rented out for a couple of days?

This is probably less true of shows like the Great Dorset & Welland where a large number of stationary engines can be expected. Then you will get both exhibitors and punters coming considerable distances to stare at each other. This is obviously good for business and the needs of the many begin to count - but not too much, to paraphrase a famous poem.

Events like Astle Park set out to be for us and those of our ilk. A straw pole this year revealed that 100% of the public I spoke to owned engines of their own, had done so but age or infirmity forbade it and one or two were actively there to buy one & get into it with us.

Anyway, my opinion expressed in my article "Not The Same As Mine Mate" in SEM remains the same and - if anything - has hardened. We don't go to all this trouble for an unknowing and largely uncaring public, we do it for each other. Peer group pressure they call it & it can move veritable mountains with a pick & shovel!

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn,

Gentlemen,

Do you not all think though if we as exhibitors got our act together a bit more then we could be up there with the rest of them, as I've said before tidier displays, more interesting exhibits and above all more interest shown when asked a question. It just may help the cause. Even a stipulation of exhibiting that you should have at least a display board would help, even one as knowledgable as I does not know it all, I know that is not what most of you think but it has to be said :-))

Martin P

Too many engine people use their engine as a free ticket for a weekend, and more so now than in previous years, despite it being solidly frowned upon by the rest of the movement.

Too many small engines a good show do not make, and the engine size is gradually reducing, save for the extra-large engines shown on the back of trucks etc.

Engine displays do not involve the bystander, they do not generally appear to be doing anything at all, which is why most people walk past and on to something more interesting.

As Kim has already stated, rallygoers do so for their own and friend's interest and little else. It is a little enclave of mechanically minded folks who gather in cliques to chat about their latest sprocket-wobbler and the 1914 spark plug they found at a local jumble sale.

Unless there is a radical change in thinking and attitude towards rallying generally, both by the engine owners and the rally organisers, there will continue to be the decline that has already been noticeable these past few years.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

Couldn't agree more! See my diatribe under 'engine photographs'

Regards

Mark

(I'm not a miserable git really!)

wrote(snip):-

I'm 44 and I don't recall ever having seen an SE used in anger, but from an early age I was taken to various steam fairs, country shows etc by a vintage car owning father and remember being more interested in the rather apologetic little line if spitting, popping stationary engines rather than the shiny cars and traction engnes. So it doesn't have to be a nostalgia thing, it's the 'classic' cars and bikes which do that for me now.

To me as an enthusiast the engines speak for themselves, I can happily spend an afternoon comparing various methods of valve actuation or governing (don't know how long I spent gazing at the Southall's patent Hardy and Padmore at Welland, but I'm still not sure how it all works!) but I appreciate that this is not the case for the majority of casual observers.

afterthought

I havn't rallied since trying it a couple of times years ago and deciding it wasn't for me and I'm not one of the worlds natural chatterboxes face to face (I think people from this NG tend to be rather dissapointed in that respect if they actually meet me). But I think you are right and if I were to rally again I would expect to have to put on a show.

"Campingstoveman" wrote:-

Kind of you to say so, but I am ever conscious of my lack of social skills.

Nick, this thread was good in diverting the diversion that was on Engine Photographs. Mind you, that thread is now passive as a result .. no-one wants to talk pix ....

At least in rural areas, a lot of folk go to shows to recapture some of their youth. For many, that included a barn engine or two. Over the past two decades, the number of visitors who have recollections of such strange things are getting much fewer -- tempus fugit et al.

Means that an increasing % of vistors have no bond of any kind to these weird little things popping & banging away -- although in a serendipity way some of them may be familiar with the lawnmower style of engine ....

No historic involvement, therefore no immediate relevance or interest. We have to create that interest, by demonstrating the relevance of our prized possesions in a way Jo Public finds interesting. If we cannot generate interest, of course we deserve to join the dodo. Perhaps the next generation of rallies will include a few well-stuffed examples of "enginemen" in lieu of engines -- would keep the H&S folk happier. I'm sure many of us have some candidate nominations ........

I enjoyed rallies most in the '60s & '70s. Good gates (drawn by the steam stuff of course), affordable interesting engines, charming & knowledgeable exhibitors who helped newbies ... & who spoke to the great unwashed on both sides of the fence.

My role model remains John Jeffries. I liked his big Handyman- like Petter 9D (?) portable that he brought back from South Africa. I was talking to him about it at Beaulieu, where I had my own Handyman running. I hadn't had the engine long, & the hot tube was cracked, but usable. Without me asking, John had his engineer make me up a replacement which he sent on within a couple of weeks, gratis. This was a man who was already an iconic collector, yet he found time to help a newbie & so secure my interest for the past three decades.

I'd like to think I could follow his example. I've always tried to explain to anyone who asked what various bits do, & helped them with reference material or sources. Of course, I've cheated by having easy engines to see & to explain. I couldn't do the same with some of the complex engines that others on this NG own...

Colin

Nick,

I shouldn't worry about face to face chatter cos you surely make up for it on the NG, you know your stuff and that's all that matters.

Martin P

Colin,

One of the best parts about the GDSF this year was the number of people who came to me because I had a Lister or because a friend had sent them over to answer a querie for them. My mate suggested next year we take a visitors book :-)) One gentleman wanted to date a Lister L and then produced pictures of a large open crank that no matter who we showed it too nobody new. The only obviouse thing was that is was a very early gas engine converted to spark ignition. He went away happy because so many of us tried, unsuccessfully, to identify it but he still had a good chat about it.

Martin P

I have a Crossley 1075, an Amanco Chore Boy & a couple of Villiers WXII's. However, although I run them for my own amusement from time to time, I'm neither equipped or inclined to trailer anything heavy about the place and my inclination is towards small motorcycley engines - like the T300, for instance.

When exhibiting, I try to ensure what I have with me is interesting, well described and it is not unusual for me to exhibit two or even three engines, plus my ever growing collection of old electronics stuff. Now I don't have the carrying capacity of the Volvo, I have to be inventive, but I can usually set out a decent display.

This coming Sunday, I'm planning to take a British (ALCO Featherweight), an American (Lion and/or Motoresearch) and a German (Auto Union) WW2 generator, each of which is rated at 300 or 400 Watts. I think its interesting to see the differences, but we'll see if the public agree!

Public frequently stop & read my signs and, as they are pretty comprehensive, usually satisfied enough to move on. However, if they meet my eye, they get spoken to.

Regards,

J. Kim Siddorn,

Diversity.

A factor applied when estimating heat load and electrical power demand. For example, would you have your kettle, microwave, and toaster operating off one circuit at the same time?